Was at my regular neighbourhood game whereby a regular brought a new friend along. Whose play is a TAG and saw him won most of the showdown. We were pretty deep even 300bb. He may cover me abit more.


I was on button with 10c 5h

Villian was on CO raised to $3.00 I called. A few callers behind 5 callers behind.

Pot $17
Flop 10d10sAh rainbow.

All checked to raiser. Bets $15.00. I called. All folded.

Pot $47.00
Turn 10h Flush draw.
He bets $25. I called.

Pot $97.00
River 2s no complete flush.
He checks. I bet $75 and gave a speech saying that if he has the Aces then I'll pay him off. Then someone fr the table mentioned that I may not want to spilt pot that's why I bet $75.00 He tanks very very long and feeling sick and call.

Should I raised on the turn ? I think I should. Is my game play correct ?

Fold pf. I suggest reading about Zeebo's theorem and not give speeches in the future. I'd raise.

I lol'd

I'd also recommend not giving speeches, but if you insist on doing so, at least say things that make sense in the moment. V checks to you on the river and you BET saying you'll "pay him off"?! V is terrible for calling.

haha, this is what I was thinking. Villain should have blockbet.

I think for most, talking is probably detrimental which is why the standard "Beware of the speech" axiom exists.

Having said that, if you develop a strong yet sincere/subtle/natural ability to chat while playing and during the hand you "can" increase your wins considerably. Personally i think it is an area that should be exploited more.

Danny Robison (7 card stud) would be the poster child for this topic. HIs seemingly nonstop verbal pitter patter probably added 30% to his winrate according to World Class stud player Rick Greider. I watched in Danny amazement for years myself. Note: Most would muck this up I would imagine. The normal TV talk/actions (bull) you hear players attempting at the tables just embarrass themselves IMO.

As always, any strategy that is top shelf is going to be hard to master. My opinion this is a topic that 99% the poker community as a whole doesnt see the value in, and thus cans the idea. This is fine. I though, have quite a few emails from students who send hands to me so overjoyed that they pulled off a "turn loser into winner" (TLIW) through verbal strategy that I have to emphatically stand alone and state that verbal IS a powerful tool if used properly. It comes up more than you would think, and turning even one loser into winner per week is very strong.

This would go against Tommy Angelos MUM Poker theory. Tommy is a well known No Limit Coach who I have the utmost respect. And while for most players the MUM theory is best in the beginning, I doubt Danny R. would have done it any different way himself and nor would I.

This i feel will be very controversial to the poker community as a whole. And about all I can say is that I have turned as many as 3-4 pots into winners that I feel would have most likely gone the other way per 60 hour week, have countless students who are doing it successfully, and watched a Grand Master of this (Danny R.) for years do this. Those are just the facts so thats and thus why I shed a little light on this subject here.

Oh yea, and for the OP here, judging by what you said I would stick to Tommys MUM theory for now. I also would have bet more on the river since the zeebo theorum is valid.

Grunch...

Damn... I really thought from the title that you were going to give a speech when you actually held air, not the nuts, to induce a fold.

Speech = nuts

Keep your mouth shut IMO.

FWIW your pre-flop call here is exceptionally bad.

Aside from the ridiculous preflop call, when you act like you have no choice but to pay someone off you're basically repping a 2nd best hand. The 2nd best hand on this board is a fullhouse. That is an incredibly strong hand that nobody would ever expect you to fold. You should be overjoyed to get it in here, not reluctantly sighing about how "if you got the aces you got my money". This might make more sense if the board was like AK569 and you're pretending you have a worse set, or a worse flush or anything that is common. But on a TTTA2 board? The range is too narrow. You should just go allin and pray he cant fold a boat.

Had a big hand yesterday in 2/5nl vs a rec-fish.

She was fairly competent for a rec-fish but still a little wet behind the ears. She was doing fairly well at the table.

I get dealt QQ in the BB. She is in the SB. Eff stacks $800, I cover

Aggro villain raises $25 from MP, BTN calls, she calls, I 3-bet to $100, MP calls, BTN folds, she calls.

Flop($300) T 9 3
She chks, I bet $150, MP folds, she says, "I feel like gambling" and then she raises me $500

really? Really Ms. Rec Fish? Am I to believe that you called my preflop $100 3-bet with QJ or 87 and now want to play for stacks on a draw?

She has a set of Ts or 9s here like always.

Easiest fold in the world.

Truth is, when noobs and rec-fish give the speech that is some form of: "hey, I just feel like betting and raising with my losing hand..." then they are always nutted. Every single time.

I've saved so much money folding to "the speech" that I'm grateful when rec-fish give me the speech.

Best thing you can do is just be quiet.

In this case, V has the nut full house. You don't have to give "the speech" because he is never folding it here. Just bet or shove and he will make a crying call, then show your quads.

^To be fair you'd probably fold to a c/r to 500 anyway but I agree that speeches almost always are the nuts.

OP, you're just negatively freerolling yourself by doing a speech. There aren't really any hands he can r-bet-bet c/call with other than an A full house, the speech can sometimes cause a player to hero fold. It's incredibly doubtful he'd c/f aces full to a reasonable bet and no speech.

Because he's not really going to continue with worse than the second nuts, you should also raise the turn and hope he can't get away from it.