Played a 1/2 game last night. Pretty balanced table, some limps and some 3bets preflop, nothing too extreme.

At this hand my stack is about 215.
UTG opens for 8, the fishy maniac of the table makes it 16 from MP (this guy could overbet shove all in on a "hunch" that other players are weak).

I'm on the CO with A7s (Hearts) and I call, so does UTG.

Pot: 51.
Flop: Ac9h8c.

both players check to me, I bet 22. Most players at this table play draws too passive so I didn't want to give free cards when It's likely I'm ahead.

UTG raises to 56, and MP folds.

UTG plays pretty solid, so I assume he wouldn't check AK/AQ on a draw heavy board (He could've been hoping for the fish to cbet, I didn't consider it at the time).
Anyway, I came to the conclusion he's most likely doing this with a flush/straight draw or a set of 88's/99's.


I decided to shove my remaining 177.

P.S: Writing down this hand makes me doubt my line. Perhaps it's better to check back flop with top pair and backdoor possibilities?

Fold pre and check the flop. Vs a range of 99, 88, JTs, and club broadways we are a 60-40 dog, so folding, not shoving is the best response to x-r.

Just fold pre, especially with utg still behind you.

Check flop.

While I do agree with fold pre vs utg open and mp raise, it's worth noting that players at this table had a large range, such as offsuit connectors and nearly any suited cards.

Fold pre and check flop as played

The shove is quite bad to be honest

You should fold pre. You have 3 others left to act, and UTG is uncapped. What are going to do if UTG decides to 4-bet.....FOLD.

Check and take the free card. You are in a WAWB situation.....you're way ahead of TT-KK but you're way behind AK-AT, aces up and a set. You don't know if you have the best hand. You don't know that UTG is checking because he's afraid of the ace, or if he's checking to trap.

The shove is terrible. The pot now has $306 and it costs V $138 to call, for 2.2 to 1 pot odds. You might get a flush draw like KQ or JT not in clubs to fold, but more likely V has a combo draw or a value hand that has you crushed, V is never folding. So from a value perspective, shoving is a negative expectation.

Doing an EV analysis, I find that the shove requires you to have about 40% equity to make an expected profit. That assumes villain always calls so the required equity will be somewhat lower if there is some chance of a villain fold.

With top pair after the flop plus a backdoor flush and straight that doesn’t seem to be such an unlikely possibility as to characterize the move as “a terrible shove” although it may not be the best move.

Pre is bad. Flop is absolutely bizarre. What better hand are you trying to get him to fold?

Sorry but this hand is really bad and based on how I'm reading the logic on the lines you took, I think you should take a step back and examine your game from ground up. Every street played really badly.

Thanks for the responses.

Lately I'm trying to improve the aggression aspect of my game. For a while I thought my game has become too passive and predictable, this weird+probably bad line is the result of my experimenting.

What I've been working on is check raising bluffs/turns based on perceived ranges and so on, would love to get a good learning source about that kind of stuff.

As of the hand, he tanked for like 3 minutes and folded AK with the Ace of clubs. He said he put me on a set/2pair.

Fold pre, check flop, fold to his raise. This hand was way too loose all around.

What’s crazy Is after reading the results V played the hand just as badly if not WORSE than Op on each street.


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Amirsal,

Here’s a question for you:

When you bet the flop the first time, tell us what the goal was? Was it to make a better hand fold or to get value from a worse hand?

If it was the former, tell us what better hands you think fold to your bet? If it’s the latter, tell us what hands worse than yours V’s can have given the action thus far.

Agreed. V played very badly as well.

I was protecting my hand, I thought I had the best hand on the flop after both aggressors checked.

I bet to charge money from draws. Don't get me wrong, I now realize this hand was all over the place, from all players involved, but this was my thinking at the time.

yeah man, you block a portion of the drawy range and have major kicker problems if called.

What is he folding here that beats you? What is he calling here that loses to you?

Really, your best hope here is something like JsTs and even then you can't like your hand too much. He was UTG and the maniac was the preflop 3! most of the time here he has AK with some AA, 99, 88 mixed in. Maybe he has some JTs KK-TT but I don't think he check raises those (well maybe JTs).

you had a hand with decent showdown equity and with some backdoor action, fold pre was the move, but at this point your hand is nothing more than a bluff catcher. He was UTG, what range do you put him on raising UTG and check raising that flop? How much of that range isn't snap calling your jam?

I don't think he even needed to consider if you were bluffing or not, he probably held the nuts or pretty close to it.

When I began asking myself why I'm raising and what it will accomplish, I became a much better player.