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Old 10-07-2018, 12:29 PM   #1
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 412
Monster hand vs table full of dummies..max value?

Playing 1-2 NL holdem at the barn last night. It's a long weekend in Canada, lots of people drinking.

Table is very loose and aggressive. Pre-flop raises to $20 with multiple callers is common.

Villain 1 - loose aggressive player, has a reputation of being one. 600 in front He's UTG, bought in 3 times but caught a nice run and has about 600 in front.

Villain 2 - Very passive, calling station, has about $400 in front. Lowjack position.

Hero - On the cutoff, has about $400.

Villain raises to $15, folds all around Villain 2 calls. Hero has 2d, 2s. Decides implied odds on a set are worth it, and calls.

Flop comes 8c 2c, 2h ..for the incredible quads! Hero is very happy and does his best to restrain his excitement.

Villain 1 bets out $25, Villain 2 snap calls, hero Snap calls hoping to impersonate a flush draw.

Turn card comes 4d (brick).

Villain bets $75..( I think to myself Villain is actually trying to protect an overpair. Villain 2 hesitates for a minute and calls. Hero emulates Villain 2, waits for a minute and calls.

River comes the Ace of Clubs.

Villain 1 has a look like he hated that river card. His body language says F--- off. Villain 1 checks. Villain 2, pauses and bets out $50.

Hero not sure what to do. The choices seem to be:

a) Call, hoping Villain 1, will call with Jacks or Queens. Perhaps, even go for a bluff-raise -steal sensing weakness if I call.

b) Raise to $100, maybe the raise is small enough that Villain 1 will still look it up and Villain 2 will call.

3) raise really big, maybe raise to 200 or go all in. Problem is Villain 1 will surely fold without a big ace and Villlain 2 may have the flush or may have been chasing Ace-X.

Last edited by Garick; 10-07-2018 at 12:39 PM. Reason: removed results
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:41 PM   #2
Herr Dr Prof Oberstlt
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,351
Re: Monster hand vs table full of dummies..max value?

OP, I think you've been told before. Please don't include results as it biases responses. I edited them out.

The correct answer is #3, AINEC. You are only getting paid if someone hit the flush, but that's the same with the min-raise, so go for max value when someone has something they can call with.

FWIW, I raise turn to get more value out of FDs and be able to GII OTR if the flush does come in.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:18 PM   #3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,436
Re: Monster hand vs table full of dummies..max value?

Preflop is standard given the conditions.

On the flop the pots is about $45 so $25 is a little on the small side but after V2 calls flat calling is fine. Raise the flop occasionally.

On the turn the pot is $115. The $75 is a fairly big bet so flat calling again is OK. You should raise turn sometimes also and if the bet had been smaller or V2 had folded a turn raise would be standard.

On the river the pot is $340 and you have $285 left and somebody bet into you. Shove is obvious. A hand big enough to play here will pay you off often enough that going smaller is costing you money. You would need a very specific read to go with anything else.
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