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Monster draw against maniac Monster draw against maniac

12-31-2018 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
If what you say is true. Fold pre and not even close.
Agreed. A hand like T7s is going to need fold equity at some point in the hand when you come in with it for a PF raise. Playing it OOP against someone with no fold button seems like a very "meh" play.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 11:42 AM
I think pre is a bit questionable given the dynamic, sounds like this guy is never folding his button so i don't think we should look to bloat a pot vs him OOP with a hand like this but it is short handed so i don't hate it;

On the flop: i have to agree with people saying to get it in and it is a no brainer; i don't care if you have 0 FE here, you have enough raw equity vs his range to justify this play; who cares if he calls you off with a hand that has 45% equity? you are very rarely dominated and who knows he might just fold on the flop as well

the only good turn cards are off suit J's and 6's here, may be hard to get paid on the front door flush coming in ; I'm ripping this in on the flop and feeling good about it
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 01:42 PM
Folding pre certainly wouldn't be a huge mistake, but two factors:

1. Nitting it up won't work in this dynamic because the maniac is not totally clueless. He's willing to give me action because I've shown down bluffs (mostly against the nits). He doesn't give any action to the nits.

2. The game was going to break in 9 hands so there was time pressure to get the maniac's money. T7s was likely to be one of my last playable hands.

In retrospect, I definitely think I should've still GII on the flop. Even with minimal fold equity it can't be too bad.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 03:06 PM
I think you should plug his 3!'ing range on the flop into poker software and see how your hand performs vs that range; I feel like you have a good idea of how this guy is playing so you could accurately construct his range ; play around with different ranges (worst case, best case, and some middling cases ) ; this can be very helpful
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 04:02 PM
Trying to construct a range for a true maniac, which is what we have here, is an exercise in futility. Unless you give him a range of ATCs, which is what it is.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 05:06 PM
Yeah, it's impossible to range him. He has everything from pocket 8s to A-high (no diamond) in his range, since he plays literally every hand and often decides to bluff at random pots.
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12-31-2018 , 06:41 PM
Pre is bad, this is why
Monster draw against maniac Quote
12-31-2018 , 08:45 PM
I mean that's the fun part isn't it? play around with some ranges, he 3! you on the flop, is he doing this with 100% of his range? not sure see how your hand performs in a variety of situations to get a feel for whether calling or raising the flop is better;

idk if you have flopzilla or something similar , yea he's super wide so I would just say ship without looking at the numbers but it could be beneficial to look at your equity vs a few diff ranges
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-01-2019 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater
Yeah, it's impossible to range him. He has everything from pocket 8s to A-high (no diamond) in his range, since he plays literally every hand and often decides to bluff at random pots.
You can't include A high and K high in his range AND claim you have no FE on the flop. I'm just not buying that, it's one or the other.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-01-2019 , 07:50 PM
just stack off on flop, vs top set we alike 42 percent. yeah it sucks when he calls with a-8 offsuit and we lose. but you shouldn't adjust your style too much vs crazy guys like this. before you know it, we are constantly checking our hands that need protection and they get there on us.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-02-2019 , 07:40 AM
Unless maniac 3b pre at super high frequency or somewhat aggro (not stated in OP) pre seems very std... esp this deep and table about to break
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-02-2019 , 09:05 AM
I disagree with GII on the flop vs a true maniac. It's usually better vs crazies to just realize as cheaply as possible since they usually just pay you off anyway when you hit and you save some money when you don't hit. In a vacuum yes pile it on the flop tho. In this case flatting did backfire a bit as you're in a rough spot vs a turn overbet. Anyway your question about have enough equity OTT, just do some simple equilab work to decide if you have enough to call. I'll give him all the nutted combos some strong and weak draws and a few combos of air. The main problem here is that a lot of his air hands like QT and you mentioned K high action have you beat so it's tough to see you having enough equity to call an overbet. The other problem is that there's almost no hands that are complete air on this turn texture, almost every hand has high showdown value than your exact holding.

Your pot odds are 38.6%, based on the stack sizing you showed, facing a $780 bet ott into a pot of $460, meaning you need this equity with your hand vs his range. It's actually pretty close based on this quick equilab plug I did. But even here it's slightly below what we need to call, and I gave him a pretty healthy amount of air such as all 64s combos and some dry king high, so I would say it's a close fold OTT. If you have overestimated how much complete air and bad draws he can have here it becomes a more clear fold though. Again there's very little "air" that your hand beats on this texture so it's hard to even find you having more equity even if we throw in some more random hands.

https://imgur.com/a/Cwe1aAc
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-02-2019 , 03:29 PM
I don't like our seat.

I have a 0% raising range from any position with a maniac at the table. We have 0% FE preflop so let's just see what he and others do and react appropriately, imo. Also, he's the last guy we want to be building a big pot against OOP; keep them small until we want them big, imo. ETA: And yeah, if he's going to make a monster open then we should likely just fold preflop.

Against maniacs whom I likely have little FE against, I would often just check this flop and see what happens. If I'm betting, I'm betting much smaller just to try to get the job done, no more than a 1/2 PSB. We should be keeping the pot as small as possible when we don't have anything and then attempt to build the pot as big as possible when we actually do have something when we have little FE. I'm assuming we're against the maniac, but thanks to our big bet and his big raise we're in an awkward spot; we likely have little FE (a big reason to push hard with big draws) and we could also be in really tough shape (such as against a bigger draw), and otherwise we're kinda flipping for huge money (which there shouldn't be any reason to do with this guy). I probably sigh call and hope he lets me see the river for cheap UI. If he's fond of overbetting huge then we likely can't do that and might be forced to lie in our bed and shove ourselves.

As played it's a simple math question which I'm too lazy to do, although at first glance it looks like we don't have the required odds and are forced to fold.

Gexactwrongwaytoapproachthisguyineverysinglemanner ,imoG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 01-02-2019 at 03:35 PM.
Monster draw against maniac Quote
01-02-2019 , 03:41 PM
Limp pre. Don't raise any hands to the right of your maniac. Your value hands can limp/rr and your more marginal opens save money when action blows up.

Just check the flop and lol when villain wants to pile money into the turn/river when we hit. Getting raised is a disaster and our implied odds are huge. I know we can call a raise or just GII, but it's still a huge shot to our EV.

The correct way to beat these guys is to channel your inner calling station.
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