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Old 07-12-2018, 02:53 PM   #1
Evsy
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Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

live 1/3

6 Limpers to hero in BB with J5ss, we check.

Flop is 863ss. We check and it checks to the button who bets 12, we think about raising for just a second but think that we should be using hands like 79ss and 45ss as semi bluffs here and decide that a call is more in order.

3 ways to a 9s.

We make our flush and are kinda lost here, it's definitely a scare card to all the top pair type hands the btn is betting on the flop, but we think it wouldn't make sense for us to x/c flop lead turn with anything except for a flush and we're just giving our opponents to get out of the hand for cheap. With that in mind we check and it checks around.

River is a 6c. The pot is 50. Hero is first to act and should?
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:59 PM   #2
Nozsr
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

By checking the turn we give a free card to all hands with a lonesome As, Ks, and Qs.

Those hands would pay to draw but we are giving them a free card.

Not a good play at all, they won't call now as they missed.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:25 PM   #3
RagingOwl
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Raise flop. I like that you're thinking about balance, but I don't agree with your hand choices for semi-bluffs. 79ss and 45ss are good candidates for leading out. Your actual hand here is a great candidate for a flop check/raise.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:05 PM   #4
shorn7
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

We need stacks to really comment. But not a chance I check the turn.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:25 PM   #5
JMX
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

As mentioned, without stack sizes I wouldn't know exactly what to do, but I would be playing this very fast by leading out on the flop with a pot-sized bet (18). As and Ks holdings will likely tag along, along with random 8x6x hands. Sets will definitely at least call.

If you're checking to the button and he bets 12, I'm putting in a pot-sized raise (54 total).

I really don't like looking for a check-raise on the flop though. It kind of exposes your holdings and I think you'd be better off leading out to disguise it a little.

Edit:
Misread the HH. Hero only flopped a flush draw.
Check-call flop is fine, but I would lead out on the turn for around a 2/3 pot bet. No need to get cute here. Betting a smaller amount on the river, maybe 1/3 pot. Rarely you're up against a higher flush, but definitely getting called by a smaller flush and maybe even a 6x.

Last edited by JMX; 07-12-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:25 PM   #6
gobbledygeek
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

I'm fine with preflop and flop.

I'd probably still go ahead and bet the turn, say like $30 into ~$55. If everyone is folding here all the time it's likely calling the flop wasn't profitable (which, getting just ~2:1 when you start factoring in rake/BBJdrop plus being OOP plus not having the nut draw plus having people after us that may check/raise, it may not be).

As played, I'm definitely betting the river as with the turn checking thru there is less chance of someone betting for us. I'd go $30ish and likely fold to a raise with the board pairing.

ETA: We only have a draw on the flop, right? (some of the responses seem to be thinking we have a made flush?)

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:31 PM   #7
Evsy
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'm fine with preflop and flop.

ETA: We only have a draw on the flop, right? (some of the responses seem to be thinking we have a made flush?)

GcluelessNLnoobG
Yes, flop is 8s6s3c
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:16 PM   #8
bigdaddycope
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

calling flop is fine IMO in a 6 way limped pot. raise is okay as well but don't agree with people who say calling flop is bad.

personally, I don't like leading turn. yeah it blows b/c he checks back a ridiculous amount of the time but it's just the nature of the situation given we are OOP. but...this is live low stakes poker so just leading our made flushes here (i assume we are ridiculously unbalanced) can't be terrible.

AP, river is a massive bet for me. people love paying off in these spots and IMO the frequency that you get called betting like 80$ into 50$ vs 35$ into 50$ is not that different. bad players will often level themselves here into "well he wouldn't bet that much now that the board has paired with a flush...so he's saying he has a full house which I just don't believe."
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:22 PM   #9
trucdouf
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddycope View Post
calling flop is fine IMO in a 6 way limped pot. raise is okay as well but don't agree with people who say calling flop is bad.

personally, I don't like leading turn. yeah it blows b/c he checks back a ridiculous amount of the time but it's just the nature of the situation given we are OOP. but...this is live low stakes poker so just leading our made flushes here (i assume we are ridiculously unbalanced) can't be terrible.

AP, river is a massive bet for me. people love paying off in these spots and IMO the frequency that you get called betting like 80$ into 50$ vs 35$ into 50$ is not that different. bad players will often level themselves here into "well he wouldn't bet that much now that the board has paired with a flush...so he's saying he has a full house which I just don't believe."
This, except no please don't overbet river.

OTR we bet for value, 1/2PSB is good. Looks like a steal, most TPGK+ hands can find a call if we don't blow them out.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:53 PM   #10
gobbledygeek
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Yeah, don't like the idea of an overbet in this spot, especially 3way (less likely we're bluffing), especially with the board pairing (we don't want to cost ourselves the maximum when behind).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:54 PM   #11
HawkesDave
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Yeah I don't understand check-raising flop either unless you're really going to let it rip hard on the turn if you miss your spade. You either bet it (which you should have done) or you check/call and then check the spade turn.

If anything, this is a good lesson as to why you should be aggressive in limped pots with good flops. This flop not only gives you a flush draw, but it also hits the BB's range better than everyone else's. If you bet and they all fold, that's still a win. If you bet, get a caller or two, and turn a flush, then that's a bigger win.

As played, river is tough. I'd bet more like 2/3 or 3/4 pot. You're probably not getting called by anything except someone who rivered trips.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:56 PM   #12
RagingOwl
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkesDave View Post
Yeah I don't understand check-raising flop either unless you're really going to let it rip hard on the turn if you miss your spade. You either bet it (which you should have done) or you check/call and then check the spade turn.
Huh?

You don't think that's getting checked-back about a million percent of the time....

When are you planning on making money in this hand?
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:32 PM   #13
HawkesDave
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

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Originally Posted by RagingOwl View Post
Huh?

You don't think that's getting checked-back about a million percent of the time....

When are you planning on making money in this hand?
If you’re going to check/call the flop then you have to check the turn when the spade lands. When are you going to make money? I mean, did you read the rest of my post? I said the best way is to bet the flop.

If you decide to check/call the flop you’re not going to get two streets of value from many hands. Leading the turn on a 3rd spade multi-way after you check-called the flop isn’t going to get many calls very often.

So yeah, lead the flop.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:34 PM   #14
RagingOwl
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Re: Missing value with a flush in a limped pot

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Originally Posted by HawkesDave View Post
Leading the turn on a 3rd spade multi-way after you check-called the flop isn’t going to get many calls very often
It's not going to induce a bet from worse..EVER.

We both agree, more money can go in on the flop. I like a check/raise. But if we're going to play out the hypothetical where we check/call the flop, then checking this turn is just missing more value.
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