2/5

Hero: been raising a lot from late position and 3 betting late position opens frequently. Not being overly loose just happened to be good spots as the players to my right have wide opening ranges in late position.

Villain: Can get tricky and puts people in tough spots but generally plays too loose from all positions.

V MP (500) raises to 15
H HJ 3bets to 40 with JJ
Folds

Flop (87)
684

V Checks, H bets 50, V calls.

Turn (187)
3

Hero???

This is where I was slightly unsure how to proceed. I have seen villain check raise flops and turns and for large amounts like a check/shove. I also block both possible FDs and so I decided to check for the following reasons:

1) I pot control against a trappy player
2) I give him a chance to bluff river
3) I don't want to face a check raise as his 3bet calling range could include all sets and 57s.

But am I missing value from his 8s, 77, 99, TT?
Should I be willing bet/call as there's so many hands he could be check/raising that I am ahead of?

I just couldn't decide so went with what I felt was the low variance route.

River (187)
8

V Checks, H bets 150 as I'm now confident I have the best hand, V tank folds says he had 99.

I am trying to review hands I have won to see if I'm missing out on value and felt this could be a contender. I appreciate any and all feedback.

I also realise my 3bet pre was too small, I actually attempted to raise to 50 but accidentally cut 4 $5 chips instead of 5.

Yes, definitely missed value.

If his calling range pre includes 57s then he has a tonne of pair+draw hands or FDs as well as TP's and small overpairs which are all continuing. We can expect him to 4b QQ+ a large amount of the time. We should be bet/calling turn if he likes to x/s too much.

We will have overcards + FDs in our range too on this turn and if we want to be betting them we absolutely have to be betting this hand.

Well played. Very strong thought process.

Other benefits to checking is to protect your checking range. So he can't just always steal on river.

This hand is perfect example while ranging villains well is super important.

We know he likes to check/shove, but doesn't sound like we know if he is balanced when he does it.

This hand boils down to his range. Until your more confident in what his calling range looks like, I can get behind a check.

Now, a bet is getting called by a lot of worse hand and only occasionally getting raised. Plus we get to deny some overs from their equity. (Although in this spot that is less of a concern).

Bet also gets us to see his hand alot. As we are likely checking back river. Which is very valuable for future hands. We can start to narrow down his PFR range and his 3bet calling range, along with his flop calling range.

But as played. I like your thought process, and don't think we gain or miss a ton of value either betting or checking.

I likely check, and call most rivers.

Bolded is key. Small sample size w/ live poker, so he could be nutted when he does this (value or monster 15 out draws eg).

Turn can go either way, especially with flush blockers, but probably lean towards betting since V has decent equity w/ most of his range. Eg, why give him infinite odds to outdraw with hands like 55, 77?

AP, OTR sizing is too big. You are almost exclusively targeting 77,99 maybe TT given action. I would bet 60-70.

Sir, I think you're playing too scared here, even with a tricky villain. Bet ~pot size on turn, not on river.

JJ is tough to play, but ask yourself what kind of board would you definitely bet on the turn w/JJ (that doesn't have a J on it)? Any 4 card board is "scary", right? Straights are possible/sets are possible/flush draws are possible(except for rare 4 card rainbow boards). No offense, but here you need to suck it up and bet big. Make him pay for draws. Think of all possible river cards we hate: any heart, diamond, overcard or 5 are bad against this villain-over 50% of cards left if my quick math is right. Also 8 on river is bad river card IMO against this villain.

Also not sure why you're so confident of best hand on river but not confident of best hand on turn....

On draw heavy boards on the turn where action so far has dictated that we have the best hand and we're in position, bet almost pot size.

All the hands your targeting for value with this river bet call the turn, plus some hands.
Probably a two street value hand and I think I’m leaning towards flop and turn rather flop and river. And with safe rivers could even go thin for a third street..

Mandatory bet for me.

I think most big hands CR the drawy flop. Weak players are afraid of the suckout. Stronger players know you can put them on a lot of draws and fear action killers in the future, so want to get it in now. So I don't think he is likely to have a set.

For the same reason, he might prefer to CR draws on flops where it doesn't look so much like a CR with a draw. Plus, with this flop, he might be able to bluff scare cards later, which might be a better way to go, if he wants to bluff. So I think he has plenty of passively played draws.

There might be a couple draws improved by the heart and now willing to CR, but they also are value targets along with the draws and worse pairs.

Plus, the turn doesn't figure to improve his hands much at all, except those few hands that just improve to better draws and 2-5. So, to state the obvious, it's a lot less likely that you are betting into a hand that has moved ahead than it would be on many other turns.

Edit: I thought about it a bit more whilst in the loo and I think this might be the best non-J turn card to bet. Everything else either improves him or is scary to many of his worse hands.

Grunch

You're 3bet size is a little small. If that's because, like you say, you're 3betting a wide range that may be fine. It's fine if you're 3betting a wider linear range. It's not fine if you're 3betting a more polarised range: if that's the case I believe you're better off going bigger on the 3bet to increase fold equity pre and postflop for all your speculative hands.

If you are using a linear all value 3bet range then you're going to hit flops with a mixture of strong and mid-strength hands so I guess it makes sense to be taking more pot-controlling lines.

However I think in this hand specifically JJ is pretty high up in your range and you're going to have a number of over/overs+FD combos you want to semibluff multiple streets and some overcard/overcards+BDNFD you want to cbet at least the flop.

Thus you need to be betting most of your overpair combos for at least two barrels in order to provide balance for your potentially wide semibluffing and bluffing range. Being IP alllows you to bluff more often and more effectively but you still don't want to be entirely unbalanced with pot controlling all your pairs and blasting off all your draws.

Conversely if you aren't applying pressure with semibluffs often enough in position then you are missing out on fold equity. Thus overly pot controlling lines bite you twice: less value with your pairs AND less opportunity to bluff.

With JJ on this particular board there are more mundane reasons to keep betting turn. Texture is such villain has lots of draws and lots of worse pairs than your hand. Any flush cards (hearts or diamonds) is going to scare you off betting river and scare V calling with pairs weaker than JJ. Any big over card is going to scare him off calling another bet with weaker pairs than JJ.

You want to bet at least flop and turn on this board. When it comes to the river that's the moment you could opt for pot control and check back - after you extracted value from his draws and weaker pairs. Just remember to consider how often you'll have a hand you think might need to bluff and how effective those bluffs might be against villain's range. Depending on that analysis you may want to fire a large third barrel with overpairs to balance your river bluffs with busted draws.

Reading others: agree bet near pot on turn and check back some/most rivers is good. Agree turn is a blank that allows a second street of value and it's likely a 2-street value hand till you are more aware of his strategy. Agree your thought process is good but maybe slightly over cautious/mubsy on turn.

I'm much more concerned about scare-cards/getting outdrawn going to the river than I am about getting X/R on this turn.

Pretty clear bet for me. If he had a huge hand he probably raises this flop and if he didn’t already have a huge hand the 3 doesn’t help him. We can get value from plenty of worse hands, our hand is vulnerable, etc.

If you think we have a two street hand, on this board, our best two streets are flop and turn as opposed to flop and river. If he has a hand like an 8 or 99 I don’t think we are much more likely to get two streets by checking turn. If he has a draw we are much more likely to get two streets by betting turn. Folding out his equity is also not a bad thing. If you want to get tricky against a lag you play with a bunch so that he respects your checks then check a hand like AdAx, AhAx, KdKh etc.

^ yeah Villain's equity can easily be pretty high with over/overs+FD. We're definitely happy to get folds from these hands on the turn especially because he's tricky so could bluff us on the river when an overcard comes that he doesn't hit our the flush he doesn't have comes in.

In addition to an occasional strong turn check back with AdAx and KdKx we can also check turn with weaker hands like A8s 98s 87s or even TT/99 which have less value but will still work as viable bluff catchers on the river. With QQ/JJ this turn is much more a bet.

Meh I think your play was fine, is he calling turn with any of the hands you mentioned besides 1010 and maybe 99? Debatable in 2018 where players generally fold way too often. Checking turn is fine, especially when you hold a heart.

River bet is much too large, that's the mistake in this hand. Literally never getting called by worse.

^ what about his flush draws? Are they not calling turn?

A fair question, 1010 and 99 with a heart, people don't usually get away from, but there's value to be had from those hands on the river anyway.

Even if those worse made hands likely dont’t call turn, which is very debatable, they aren’t more likely to call river unimproved or turn their pair into a bluff. Folding out their 11-21% or equity is the best outcome.