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Missed value? Missed value?

10-27-2018 , 12:22 PM
this hand occurred during the first orbit of my 1/2 session
Hero: 300 effective
Villain (UTG1) about 200 effective to start the hand

UTG1, 2, CO and BTN all limp
Hero raises to 17 in SB with KcKs
UTG1, 2 and CO all call
(Pot: 70)

Flop K73r
Hero checks
UTG1 bets 30
Folds to hero
Hero raises to 80
UTG tank folds

Thoughts on my flop raise? I had never played against this villain before, middle aged guy who looks to have come from work. My reason for this line was that he is never airballing here and I put the bottom of his range to KJs. With just about a 2.5x raise and the effective stack sizes I don’t mind my line. Should I check calling here always to almost always? At these low stakes games I play straightforward and go for value because of the heavy POW presence. Although it’s hard to pin someone as a POW when I have 0 history with them. Missed value ?
Missed value? Quote
10-27-2018 , 03:05 PM
Bet flop. c/r on that dry board is scary as hell, and will get almost no calls. Betting out will get less believers as the PFRer. If everyone folds, you weren't making any money on the hand to speak of anyway.
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10-27-2018 , 03:25 PM
Yeah X/R is too strong.

Betting flop small is fine but I'm frequently X/C this flop to let villains catch up a bit as I crush the board. Yeah their are a few gutshots that can make it on the turn but I don't mind taking that chance since it's so hard for anyone else to have anything here.
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10-27-2018 , 03:32 PM
Go a little bigger pre like even 20. Bet small or x/c fine on flop it’s hard for anyone else to hit this flop besides gutters and backdoors. I lean betting $20-25.
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10-27-2018 , 04:36 PM
My thinking in the moment was that UTG1 had to have some showdown value to bet with 2 others left to act. On such a dry board he almost always has a king? (He tanked for about 90s). I probably played it too fast, but figured if he did have a king he would call the small check raise, and we could easily get the money in on brick turns or even cards that might improve him like any broadway
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10-27-2018 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Bet flop. c/r on that dry board is scary as hell, and will get almost no calls. Betting out will get less believers as the PFRer. If everyone folds, you weren't making any money on the hand to speak of anyway.
Interesting. When the flop came out I didn’t really consider betting with the monster in a multiway pot
Missed value? Quote
10-27-2018 , 04:42 PM
I actually don't mind checking this flop some percentage of the time, as this is a dry board you truly have on lock. C betting small, a little under 1/2 pot seems standard. If you're checking, it's to c/c. C/R is way too strong on such a dry board, and Vs going to have a very narrow continuing range.
Missed value? Quote
10-27-2018 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by any_2_cards
Interesting. When the flop came out I didn’t really consider betting with the monster in a multiway pot
That's exactly why you bet, because people are calling light and drawing nearly dead. Betting small will keep some hands in, who might turn a flush draw, straight draw and continue to stick.

If you decide to check, you have to call on this board and evaluate on the following streets. Check/raise on the flop at these stakes is considered super strong.
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10-27-2018 , 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devnull2
That's exactly why you bet, because people are calling light and drawing nearly dead. Betting small will keep some hands in, who might turn a flush draw, straight draw and continue to stick.

If you decide to check, you have to call on this board and evaluate on the following streets. Check/raise on the flop at these stakes is considered super strong.
This makes sense. I got wrapped up in effective stacks and with the pot already pretty bloated I went for getting stacks in.

Any thoughts on my sizing?
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10-27-2018 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by any_2_cards
This makes sense. I got wrapped up in effective stacks and with the pot already pretty bloated I went for getting stacks in.

Any thoughts on my sizing?
IMO you played a beautiful hand quite poorly.

Preflop, you're OOP against 3 limpers so make it a bit more than you usually raise. If your standard is 10-12 from the button then this sizing is fine. Personally I'd have gone for $20 here.

On the flop, you have this flop on lock. It's *very* hard for anyone else to have anything good here (and stacks will go in against the set-over-set coolers however you play it), so either x/c or bet yourself. I'd lean towards betting (small) yourself since there's always a non-believer or two.

There is absolutely no reason to x/raise. There are almost no bad turn cards for you, and you have everyone else crushed. Considering your plan was (apparently) to trap them, continue to give them rope to hang themselves and just call.

x/raising this flop as the PFR is ridiculously strong. I would have alarm bells going off like crazy as a villain here, to the point where I might even fold a lower set.
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10-27-2018 , 07:23 PM
Bet flop or x/c flop. C/ R is bad you are the pfr on a dry board & you massively block top pair. Basically only lower sets are continuing.
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10-27-2018 , 09:34 PM
On a K73r flop you're usually going to make more money with middle or bottom set as compared to having top set.
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