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Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player???

07-17-2015 , 09:08 AM
Playing $1/$2 NL at 9-handed table.

UTG+1 starts hand w/ approx $275 and he's pretty drunk, I have him well covered.

UTG+1 raises to $10, I call in MP with 55, button calls and BB calls, approx. $40 in pot.

Flop AK5

Pretty much a dream flop for my hand... BB and drunk player check it to me, I bet $25 into $40, which has been pretty standard for me all night long. Button and BB fold, drunk player calls.

Turn 7

Drunk player checks, I bet $50 into approx. $90, again he calls.

Here is where the hand gets tricky... He checks the river dark and the card is a tricky one for me. A

If he hadn't checked dark I feel the action would have gone totally differently, but now I don't know what to do. I pretty much have narrowed his range down to A10 - AK - he's not calling me on all those streets with nothing.

The pot has roughly $190, and he's playing roughly $185 at this point.

Basically my question is, am I missing out on a ton of value here by checking the behind, or is it an OK conservative play, b/c he could very likely hit one of the few cards that beats me on the end?
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 09:15 AM
You almost certainly would have heard some noise by now if he had 2 pair+. The A coming might make him believe he is good even when he doesn't have an A, he is almost always gonna over value his hand when he does have an ace I'm going for a big river bet and coming with the intention of getting stacks in if played back at.

Just re-looked at stack sizes. I'm betting somewhere around half pot, like 95 just to give him rope to push it in as a bluff or over value an A. Not betting river here is bad IMO.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 09:16 AM
Is this a real question? Do you like money? Bet for value, and call it off if raised.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 09:28 AM
Bet! Go about half pot again just to keep him in and maybe induce him to raise. Call it off if he raises. If he luck-boxed you, I'm sorry.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 10:47 AM
Not betting this river is lighting money on fire. Bet whatever you think the drunk guy will call. Personally I probably shove because he's never folding an Ace.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 11:04 AM
Please shove river.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 11:08 AM
Shove the river. He isn´t folding an ace.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleOneDropper
Basically my question is, am I missing out on a ton of value here by checking the behind, or is it an OK conservative play, b/c he could very likely hit one of the few cards that beats me on the end?
You are missing a TON of value.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleOneDropper
I pretty much have narrowed his range down to A10 - AK - he's not calling me on all those streets with nothing.
If this is correct, why would you not bet?

When players check dark on the river, it often means they are okay with you not betting, no matter the card that comes. It sometimes means they are on a draw. It usually means they don't have a hand strong enough to consider check-raising the river.

I think this player might have K and another heart, so I might bet small enough that villain would consider looking me up just in case I don't have an ace.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:29 PM
shoving is absolutely fine

As long as you don't check - and bet at least half pot I don't think you could make a huge mistake.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:34 PM
Drunk guy is never folding an ace here.

Pot flop and 3/4 bet turn to setup an even easier river shove. As played shove it in
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:36 PM
Ace is literally the best card in the deck to extract value against his range for a big bet
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:37 PM
He's either got an ace or nothing and he's never folding an ace, so.........

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 01:37 PM
The moment he checks dark, I move AI dark.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-17-2015 , 04:39 PM
Grunch:

Bet more on the flop and the turn. I'd be betting $30 (or even full pot) on the flop as an Ace isn't folding for one bet. As played would have bet $75 into the $90 pot on the turn. You need to get max value with your big hands.

Once you get to the river, you're ahead virtually always. AK is usually 3-betting PF, and A7 or A5 would likely have raised flop/turn or bet into you (and there are very few combos of A5 here). Checking river is a monumental mistake. I don't think you can be a winning player at $1/$2 if you are missing this value bet. With about a PSB left behind here, I'm just shoving as villains at this level are incapable of folding an Ace on this board. If you had sized flop and turn larger, then villain would be left with about a 1/2 pot bet left and there would be almost 0 chance of him folding.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-18-2015 , 02:18 AM
Grunch:

Pre: totally fine.

Flop: ok I guess. I would probably bet $30 since most Ax and Kx will call that.

Turn: way under bet. Ax is still going to call if you put in $65 or maybe more. Kx is likely folding anyway. But you said he's drunk so who knows what will call.

River: this is a great card for you. Even if you assign the stupid tight At+ range you gave him you only lose to 10 combos. Hint: you beat way more than that. And the bonus is that he's never folding any of his range to a shove. So, even though you erred in your bet siZing in my opinion you still can get all in and called and be winning better than 2/3 of the time. Check behind is criminal.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-18-2015 , 03:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleOneDropper
UTG+1 starts hand w/ approx $275 and he's pretty drunk, I have him well covered.

If he hadn't checked dark I feel the action would have gone totally differently, but now I don't know what to do. I pretty much have narrowed his range down to A10 - AK - he's not calling me on all those streets with nothing.

The pot has roughly $190, and he's playing roughly $185 at this point.

Basically my question is, am I missing out on a ton of value here by checking the behind, or is it an OK conservative play, b/c he could very likely hit one of the few cards that beats me on the end?
That's a pretty narrow range you have V assigned to considering he's drunk. What makes you think he is calling you down with only Ax? He's drunk he could be calling you down with way worse.

shove > value bet >>>>>>>>>>>>> check.

Even against a nit I'm never checking this river behind. Against a guy you claim is drunk I am shoving this river all day. Would not be surprised if you get called by something worse than Ax.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-18-2015 , 05:24 AM
You have to bet more on the flop and turn to bloat the pot and allow stacks to get in naturally.

As played you have to bet the river. Dark checks are either flush draws or show downy one pair type of hands.

Checking back this flop is really monster under the bedlike.

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Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote
07-18-2015 , 12:40 PM
Flop bet is ok but maybe a little small. Flop bet is way too small. He's called once, he'll call again so charge him.
I also agree that if V had two pair, you'd have been raised on the flop or turn. Checking river behind is leaving a lot of value on the table.
Missed river value or safe play vs. dunk player??? Quote

      
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