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Old 12-01-2017, 03:38 AM   #1
Brogias
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Middle pair facing all in over bet

Hero has been playing tight and has a good TAG image at table. Were 6 handed $1/$2 at this point.

Hero UTG raises to $10 with K❤️9❤️ ($178 starting stack)
Villain 1 calls $10 ($97 behind. Heís been tight preflop, post flop a poor player. Betting middle pair 3 streets only 20-30% of the pot size bets.)
Villain 2 on button calls $10 ($400 behind. New player, playing a lot of hands.)
Bb calls $10 ($100 starting stack)

$41 in the pot.
Flop comes A♠️9♦️5♣️ all 4 players check.

Turn is Q♠️
Checks around to Villain 1 who goes all in for $97.
Villain 2 considers for 20-30 seconds but folds.
BB folds.
Hero?

I have two questions.

1. Is checking that flop 4 handed the right decision or do i need to c-bet middle pairs more when multiway.
2. Villain 1 was tilting. How often can we put him on a draw here? Looks like heís trying to buy the pot. What kind of hands may do that multiway?
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Old 12-01-2017, 04:31 AM   #2
Viral25
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

Fold pre. We can get away with opening light vs tight players, but certainly not with an active player on the BTN.

1. check or bet are both reasonable imo. Recently i'm leaning more towards cbetting these spots, specially on these Axx boards, which keeps me uncapped and gives me manueverability on further streets.

2. Based on your description he doesn't have many 1 pair hands. So that leaves AQ/99/55/A5/Q9 (16 combo's, assuming they all check flop(?), or a draw). Considering he bets 2.2x pot we need him to have 18 or more draw combo's. If he's tight pre he probably doesnt have hands like JTo or 97ss, which likely means he isn't drawing often enough for us to call here.
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Old 12-01-2017, 04:34 AM   #3
foreigner
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

1. No cbet bet, you are out of position and there is an A on the board.
2. All Ax are in his range, if he plays that bad postflop even KQ, QJ, QTs, TT, JJ and slowplayed monster

First of all I think its a bit too loose to open bet 5bb from UTG. A cbet bet is even with your tight image from this position with 4 players suicidal
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Old 12-01-2017, 05:27 AM   #4
sauhund
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

It is a top 16% hand 6handed. Opening is reasonable, due to large opening sizes things tend to get tricky very fast...

Not this hand though, very clear c/f on all postflop streets.
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Old 12-01-2017, 05:50 AM   #5
Chicagodude
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

I hate this hand UTG. I know your 6 handed but I would fold preflop. As played, I cbet half the pot and then give up after that.
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Old 12-01-2017, 01:32 PM   #6
caddymatty
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

I don’t mind the open 6 handed at all. My question is what kind of hands have you seen from villian 1? Does he limp with different ranges of ace combos, KQ, KJ?

You hit middle pair on a monotone board so I think a half pot bet makes sense here. You said your image is TAG so it’s very easy for people to think you can have an ace. If you bet and villain ships on the flop it’s very easy fold.

As played when it gets to the turn it can open a lot of possibilities for a player who is tilting. He could just be going for it with a Queen here I believe hoping to just pick up the pot. He also can have a lot of combo draws including straight draws and flush draws that may potentially still be overs to our pair as well.

If the player is as bad as your implying then I think it’s bwtter to just fold and find better spots to get his money. With that said I think a flop bet makes the hand a lot more clear on how to proceed
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Old 12-01-2017, 01:37 PM   #7
sauhund
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddymatty View Post
I donít mind the open 6 handed at all. My question is what kind of hands have you seen from villian 1? Does he limp with different ranges of ace combos, KQ, KJ?

You hit middle pair on a monotone board so I think a half pot bet makes sense here. You said your image is TAG so itís very easy for people to think you can have an ace. If you bet and villain ships on the flop itís very easy fold.

As played when it gets to the turn it can open a lot of possibilities for a player who is tilting. He could just be going for it with a Queen here I believe hoping to just pick up the pot. He also can have a lot of combo draws including straight draws and flush draws that may potentially still be overs to our pair as well.

If the player is as bad as your implying then I think itís bwtter to just fold and find better spots to get his money. With that said I think a flop bet makes the hand a lot more clear on how to proceed
Betting never folds out better and very rarely gets called by worse, so I really donīt see the point.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:40 PM   #8
The Rumor
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

Five ways I am never c betting here with an ace on board. Flop is mostly a check fold at this level on a dry board.

Turn seems like a fold unless he has been spazzing hard. Your read was he made weak bets with middling hands. What does that mean when he actually bets big?
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:47 PM   #9
javi
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

I'm just wondering how this hand was supposed to play out in your mind
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:29 AM   #10
Brogias
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Re: Middle pair facing all in over bet

Given a tight table image. I have no problem opening this hand. Especially 6max.
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