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Old 08-26-2016, 05:13 PM   #26
HawkesDave
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

I adjust my game to a rec/fish, I don't care what side of them I sit on. They don't adjust their game, so it's easy enough for me to change my checking/betting/check-raising patterns against them based on where they are.

On the other hand, I'm more likely to seat change when I'm playing a loose agro opponent. Those I want on my right.

Everyone else, I don't go out of my way. As someone else stated, they're usually gone soon, or you get another fish sitting to your left 10 minutes after you moved.
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:56 PM   #27
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

There is nothing wrong with doing the occasional strategic seat change if you can do so without hurting the game. Unfortunately, there are a lot of selfish regs who care more about angling for a little more short term profit with repeated and excessive predatory seat changing.

I have definitely seen rec players walk up to my 5/10 NL table before to sit down in an open seat, and then they immediately go back to playing a smaller game instead when a Douchebag reg wants to move their direct left.
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:04 PM   #28
iraisetoomuch
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Thread is treading on a little thin here on lack new content / not just being plain stupid.
I won't lock it yet, but keep comments in check please.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:11 PM   #29
ATsai
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Another super awkward and unfriendly behavior that I have seen a lot lately is the following:

Seat opens to the direct left of a recreational player. Immediately, a backpack reg will SNAP announce to the dealer/table that he is moving to that seat.. Then the backpack reg will FRANTICALLY unbunkle his backpack from his own seat, POWER WALK over to the other seat, and then FRANTICALLY buckle his backpack around the new Seat to the left of the rec.

That's how you destroy good games with a selfish push to the lowest common denominator to look out for NUMBER ONE.

For the record, the reg could have still gotten the seat that he wanted by just waiting patiently for 1-2 minutes to go by before quietly and casually moving over. But there are definitely selfish regs who would rather snap stake their claim to the Jesus seat immediately and could not care less about how predatory it looks to do so.
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Old 08-27-2016, 11:47 AM   #30
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
Sometimes I hate the idea of "live pros should do XYZ as good customer service." While it is true, it is much better to do XYZ things because you are a gentleman who was sympathy/empathy for your fellow human beings. (instead of treating everyone like your piggy bank)

This may be more of a modern societal problem than a live poker problem, but there are way too many people who are just looking out for NUMBER 1 instead of caring/sympathizing/empathizing for their fellow human beings.
Wait, what?

Look, I'm all about empathy and caring for your fellow man and blah blah blah, but poker is a game. Someone sits down at a poker table, and they're trying to take my money. They're my enemy, and a wise man once said the enemy deserves no mercy. I presume that every other player is playing with money they can afford to lose, as I am. If they're not, that's their problem not mine.
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Old 08-27-2016, 12:42 PM   #31
venice10
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

If I'm at a LLSNL table where a significant difference in my winning and losing is my position in comparison to another player's position, I'm at the wrong table. I need to move. My thought when seeing someone move to get the jesus seat on a fish is, "great, I know how I'm going to exploit you."
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Old 08-27-2016, 05:56 PM   #32
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Wait, what?

Look, I'm all about empathy and caring for your fellow man and blah blah blah, but poker is a game. Someone sits down at a poker table, and they're trying to take my money. They're my enemy, and a wise man once said the enemy deserves no mercy. I presume that every other player is playing with money they can afford to lose, as I am. If they're not, that's their problem not mine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:31 PM   #33
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Just say your seat is unlucky and you have a better feeling about a different seat. Fish will sympathize with you. Problem solved.
+1 ... Yeah. I say I cant see the cards from that spot if I am in 1 and 2 or 8 and 9. Any other, I just say I am looking for more room.

Keep the game social. Keep your customers coming back.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:28 PM   #34
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

I used to auto seat change to the most profitable location, and did it shamelessly. This was when I was still playing 2-5 as my main game, and tbe player pool was very large.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't fly at higher stakes, especially when the player pool is much smaller. Sometime's you gotta suck up a bad seat because it's good for the game as a whole. I came to Understand that constantly seat changing is -ev predatory behavior that can cost you and the game of poker $ in the long run.

There's two good regs where I play who were absolutely guilty of this, and now they have basically been blackballed from the biggest game that runs only once or twice a week.
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Old 09-02-2016, 08:00 AM   #35
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox View Post
I used to auto seat change to the most profitable location, and did it shamelessly. This was when I was still playing 2-5 as my main game, and tbe player pool was very large.

Unfortunately, it really doesn't fly at higher stakes, especially when the player pool is much smaller. Sometime's you gotta suck up a bad seat because it's good for the game as a whole. I came to Understand that constantly seat changing is -ev predatory behavior that can cost you and the game of poker $ in the long run.

There's two good regs where I play who were absolutely guilty of this, and now they have basically been blackballed from the biggest game that runs only once or twice a week.
+1 regarding how predatory seat changing rapidly becomes stupid at 10/20 NL+.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:42 PM   #36
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

FWIW, I believe 5/T (and higher) aren't considered small stakes (according to the sticky above), which is what this forum is aimed at.

Gyouguysarediscussingatotallydifferentenvironment, imoG
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Old 09-02-2016, 02:19 PM   #37
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

[QUOTE=MikeStarr;50670272]A good player should not need to have position on a rec player. You should be able to beat him from anywhere. You need position on the tough tricky hard to read players.

Exactly, in the rare times that I seat change for positional advantage, it's because I want to get in position against a good player. I don't care where the fish sit in relation to me.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:41 AM   #38
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Not seat changing to get position is the same as waiting in line at the grocery store. Would you shop at a place where the most aggressive elbower always checks out first?

Dont be that guy. No one wants to play with you.
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Old 09-03-2016, 09:56 AM   #39
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
If I'm at a LLSNL table where a significant difference in my winning and losing is my position in comparison to another player's position, I'm at the wrong table. I need to move. My thought when seeing someone move to get the jesus seat on a fish is, "great, I know how I'm going to exploit you."
Haha this too
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:56 AM   #40
distracto845
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Agreed, Venice. If you're at a $2/5 table and need to habitually change seats, youre either in a horrible game or you need to work on your game.

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Old 09-03-2016, 03:39 PM   #41
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
More importantly, live poker players should act more like gentlemen regarding stuff like seat changing. The Golden Rule applies here. If you were a recreational player looking to have a fun time, would you like having half the table snap seat changing to your left whenever a seat to your left opened up? If the answer is NO, then you should not do it to the recreational player sitting at your table.

Sometimes I hate the idea of "live pros should do XYZ as good customer service." While it is true, it is much better to do XYZ things because you are a gentleman who was sympathy/empathy for your fellow human beings. (instead of treating everyone like your piggy bank)

This may be more of a modern societal problem than a live poker problem, but there are way too many people who are just looking out for NUMBER 1 instead of caring/sympathizing/empathizing for their fellow human beings.

To be clear I avg maybe 1 seat change per session which usually has to do with getting more solid players with stacks to my right. Very occasionally I'll grab a whale God seat. But honestly it comes up rarely in my games.

But to the bolded above I just have to laugh. You make a living largely exploiting people with gambling addictions.
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:15 PM   #42
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

I'll usually ask for a seat change button shortly after introducing myself to my neighbors. An orbit or two.
I'll ask them if the player who I'm replacing was felted or was lucky enough to leave with chips.
If a new player comes to the table, I'll say "Welcome to the party" or something like that.

I'll ask the dealer, shortly after arriving, "Can I get a seat change button, just in case I keep getting crappy cards? Appears the deck-mate doesn't like seat X" Or, "I'm not getting any warm vibrations from the deck-mate in this seat."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAmmAndo
You make a living largely exploiting people with gambling addictions.
+1 We are like vultures. However, if you ever find yourself stranded in the desert, you can take a little solace in the fact that vultures eat their own kind only when they're extremely hungry.
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:22 PM   #43
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

This is really being overthought. No one changes seats when they're running well. If they're not running well most of the table assumes they're changing seats for 'luck' because at a minimum the entire table knows if someone is running well or not. No need to even say anything most of the time when changing seats. It's complete bs that some shark is going to change seats even though they are doing well and some fish sits at the table. Never happens.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:43 PM   #44
MastaC707
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

If I change seats at the table, its for one of two things, to put the tightest player, or row of tight players to my left letting have full advantage of late position for longer, or if the table is all the same, no real reason to move based on player tightness, then Ill take seat 7 or 3 as they offer me the best view of the field, with 8 and 2 being just behind in preference.

If some one is in every pot, its not necessary to put them to your right as they will be in every pot, playing poorly, so position on them is some what wasted. It could work well to have them to your left so that you can raise the field when they limp\open and invite the whole field, letting you take down bloated preflop pots light.

Masta--
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:21 PM   #45
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Originally Posted by HmrHed View Post
This is really being overthought. No one changes seats when they're running well. If they're not running well most of the table assumes they're changing seats for 'luck' because at a minimum the entire table knows if someone is running well or not. No need to even say anything most of the time when changing seats. It's complete bs that some shark is going to change seats even though they are doing well and some fish sits at the table. Never happens.
Known reg walks up to table, dealer says hi, reg puts his backpack on the back of his chair, sits down, puts on headphones, and immediately asks for the seat change button before he even receives cards.

I see this all the time, and it projects "I'm here to win your money" in a really lame way.
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:03 PM   #46
cannabusto
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

What is it with ****ing backpacks anyway? It's like pilots with old leather briefcases. Everyone has/does the same ****.
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:17 PM   #47
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Love it when I can ask the guy on my left where he was during Normandy. In most rooms grabbing that seat is nbd as the fish are often the biggest seat jumpers. In some situations you're shooting yourself in the foot. Depends? Who woulda guessed that?

Moving when you need four racks to pull it off probably always a mistake tho. Fish are like "wtf hot seat dude?" . Talk about using a hammer on the tank.

tl;dr: don't be a dick
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Old 09-05-2016, 11:39 AM   #48
ZuneIt
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

Speaking of "hot seats" while at the same time not trying to derail the thread:

I'm in the 8 seat, which is freezing cold due the vent right above it. I had just recently lost a $700+ pot in a 1/2 game, when I turned the nut str8 & went all-in for $185 on top of V's $75 bet. 3rd player was already all-in.

Board reads T854

I've got 76

Guy calls me after much deliberation & catches a 5 on the river to go with his T5o.......

Love those type players at the table, however, I'm now in the game for $800 with only $275 in front of me & he packs up shortly thereafter & I ask for his seat. Not because it's runnin' hot....I don't believe in it. It doesn't have a vent above it.

So I rush with my chips over there because I thought he was all racked up, but he had a backpack securely strapped to his seat but I managed to post my BB & receive AJ & win.

Next hand I get TT & win & now I'm up $35.00
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:44 PM   #49
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

I'll ask for a seat change to get position against certain maniacs/whales in my player pool. Otherwise, I'll try to stay between the 3-7 seats because A) I hate bumping against the dealer/bashing my knees against the undertable supports, and B) being in the middle of the table allows me to see everybody's stacks. Nothing worse than having to ask out loud how much someone is playing. If I can see and not draw attention to the fact I take the game seriously, all the better.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:39 AM   #50
ZuneIt
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Re: Metagame considerations around table/seat changing

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Love it when I can ask the guy on my left where he was during Normandy.
So.....you're one of those! I've been asked where I was during Hamburger Hill..........I was 13 bee-atch!
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