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Old 04-12-2014, 06:51 AM   #26
akitoes
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Re: Maximising value with quads.. the bane of my existence

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Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
If we minraise and they call Now the pot is a nice juicy $280-ish dollars leaving us $135-ish behind . thus, come turn, we can just go ahead and go all-in and they will have to call with 100% of their draws because the pot will be so big.
I'm curious, why allin instead of something like $60 ? I would bet small with the same logic you had for the minraise, it's not like they're gonna make some sick fold on the river because we can only have the nuts

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I don't know if this is right or not, but I would have bombed the river. It never ceases to amaze me how often I get called.
Yeah I agree, in a lot situations where we missed value I think bombing the river has a way higher EV than a smaller bet (like in this situation we only need to get called a third as much compared to a 50 bet).
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Old 04-12-2014, 06:07 PM   #27
venice10
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Re: Maximising value with quads.. the bane of my existence

Just to add my cliff notes to dgi's post. Another reason to build the pot on the flop is that there are two cards coming. Even if they think they are beat, they know that the next card can put them out in front. With two cards, it is even more likely if you're wrong you can suck out.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:51 AM   #28
trucdouf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
What hands can our villains have that bet $35, call $35, and then fold to an additional $35 when the action gets back to them and they are facing a $200+ pot?

All pocket pairs and all flush draws call a min raise on the flop and there is an X% chance someone spazzes out and shoves the flop because they will have two cards coming or because they put us on the flush draw...

Basically, there just are no hands in our villains' ranges that bet and call the flop bet and then subsequently fold to a min raise.
I think a min raise can easily get called. I did say a raise can be OK.

I was referring to a sized raise of 90+. With 160 behind, awkward spot outside of a min raise.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:35 AM   #29
TheGramuel
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Re: Maximising value with quads.. the bane of my existence

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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Min raise the flop
Depends on villains obviously, but a minraise OTT to a thinking player (obviously from a non-thinking player) at 1-2 is almost always the nutted hand.

I had to lay down QQ twice this weekend to minraises on the flop, once on 884 (I cbet, one call, one minraise, I think and fold) and once on 9910 (exact same scenario). Both times V had flopped trips or better. Obv plural of anecdote is not data but if this was an unthinking player making this minraise I'd be laying down all sorts of stuff I would call later.

If Vs are not thinking, minraise is probably ok.
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