Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2014, 11:12 PM   #1
wheydacheese
veteran
 
wheydacheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,037
Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

1-2 nl, 240 behind, image is tight (no really lol)...been pretty inactive, V is similar stack, he is mid 30s white reg at this game, most certainly loose preflop, flip flops post flop often being aggro over-playing TP kind of hands but otherwise passive, he thinks of himself as a competent player but is a 1-2 reg in all the sense of the term...in other words think totally generic 1-2 reg and this is how i would play him

i open from MP with Jh9h to $9, normally i fold here but table has been slowing down/getting passive as a whole and my image really is tight enough here to rep strong post even with such a weak pre open...folded around to V on button who calls.

i intend to c-bet pretty standard (maybe 15$) on most flops, but flop is JJ4 rainbow...i lead out for $8 hoping he will read this as a very weak stab on missed flop or fear of jack kind of play that typical 1-2'er might make (i know hes a reg but he doesnt know me) , he flats. i really think his range here is floating with any ace to rep the jack later or small pairs thinking he may be good. turn is the 9 completing rainbow, keeping with my weak flop line i check, i feel like im only getting more $ in if i let him proceed with float most of the time...he obliges and bets $20...so far so good but now the decision comes in...if i flat here and check river he is NEVER fireing again unless hes betting here with some gutshot and hits, with how tight ive been playing a check/flat totally opposes my weak line and comes off really strong especially if i then lead into him on river. so at this point i decide the only possible way to get more $ in is to c/r trying to look stubborn or 'see if he really has the jack' kind of play, i make it $60(40 more) knowing with that sizing he 'might' make a horrible flat with a gutter/open ended OR try to play back at me...in otherwords i felt the c/r here looked a lot more desperate/testy than flat/lead river...thoughts???
wheydacheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:01 AM   #2
wheydacheese
veteran
 
wheydacheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,037
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

bump..no opinions on weak lead flop vs standard cbet size? or more so on the c/r turn vs c/c-lead river? was a short session so this one stuck in my mind...
wheydacheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:28 AM   #3
ponuker
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 16
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

I like your line and wouldn't be surprised if he folded quickly. Check raises are usu. very strong. I would have kept betting light to give him the opportunity to check raise and place a big bet on the river to hopefully lure him in with juicy pot odds. I do like your c/r on the turn...
ponuker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 06:42 AM   #4
GrindPokerAllDay
banned
 
GrindPokerAllDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: In a poker room near you.
Posts: 2,326
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

You pretty much ran into the problem with checking the turn. If you check and villain checks behind you lose a street of value. If you check and villain bets then your hand is going to look strong. In order to maximize value you will want to raise but then your hand is turned face up and your opponent can easily fold the 2nd best hand.

Bet more on flop. Bet turn. Bomb river.
GrindPokerAllDay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 07:35 AM   #5
UCDLaCrosse
Pooh-Bah
 
UCDLaCrosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ESSJ
Posts: 4,904
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

bet bet bet.
UCDLaCrosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 07:42 AM   #6
bwslim69
I'm a Diva, Bruh
 
bwslim69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: TPS reports
Posts: 23,812
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

C/r turn is awful. Bet flop, bet turn, bet again on river. Basically bet every time the dealer says its your turn
bwslim69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:25 AM   #7
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,429
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

I don't actually mind the check/raise line on the turn. Your hand kills the deck here and it is super hard for villain to have anything. Preflop and flop play say villain doesn't have an over pair, and small pairs can't be happy here, villain's range is pretty much air and monsters. If villain has JX or a boat, it doesn't matter which line you take, your making money. If your confident villain is going to take a stab at pot, then let them, it's probably the only money to made. Once you call that bet, villain either has a hand that isn't going away easily or is probably giving up, so you might as well raise at that point.

Betting turn is fine also, both to balance your range and because it actually looks a bit weaker here. You could be betting an over pair, some pairs under JJ and occasionally barreling two over cards. A sticky villain probably calls wider then they bet here. Under pairs that are giving up instantly to the check/raise might call a bet on turn and a small bet on river. If this was multiway or the board was a bit wetter, I'm always betting turn.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 08:29 AM   #8
wheydacheese
veteran
 
wheydacheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,037
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

thx for replies, i really didnt think this V is calling turn bet, only reason he called flop light b/c the unusually weak c-bet (him flatting the 8$ on flop he never has a pair here and unlikely a strong ace even)...i think checking turn to let him stab after the show of weakness on flop is only way were getting more $ in on turn...the problem is what to do after...in retrospect maybe flat in case he can improve to something with at least moderate SD value on river or even dink a straight could be much better for us...or withstanding that, maybe a weak lead for like $12-15 on river looking weak blocking bet would make him try to rep the jack once more, out of ego if nothing else having tried on turn...

as it was my thinking was wrong, c/r in llsnl 1-2 just incites too much here so my hope he would find it odd after the weak lead on flop didnt work out, he pretty much instamucked A-5 faceup...
wheydacheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 10:37 AM   #9
fitzthetaxman
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 768
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

If I am checking turn...(which I am generally not), I am check calling and quickly checking river. Gotta give Villain a chance to try to rep a jack. Mainly because I think he has air a whole lot here and your line makes it look like you have a very marginal hand trying to pot control.
fitzthetaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2014, 10:50 AM   #10
SpexDome
banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 783
Re: Max value for nutty flop/turn oop (line check)

Semi-grunch.

When you flop bingo...you need to make a plan. You can't "shoot from the hip" like you were doing. Posting this later and asking if you guessed right HELPS NOBODY!!!

We have about $230 that needs to go into a pot that currently holds about $15. A pot sized bet on each street would just about get you there. $15 + $45 +$135 = $195. So do that, and hope villain comes along.

You open by saying "he's totally generic, and that's how I play him". But then you go on to talk about inducing bluffs and otherwise trying to manipulate the mind of someone you consider a moron. This just sounds like a super-high-variance road to being a losing player.
SpexDome is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive