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Old 03-08-2020, 05:14 PM   #1
thenewoldpro
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Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

I-2 NL holdem.

I am sitting in an average 1-2 NL holdem game on Friday night. Everything is pretty straightforward. Won a few pots with some pretty straightforward TAG play. Then "HE" shows up. Let's call him Mr T. Mr T is one of the craziest maniacs that ever graced a 1-2 poker table. It has not been uncommon for him to lose 2000 in one night. He actually set our home game record losing 3000 in one night. It wasn't even a full night mind you, just from 8pm-2am.

He sits down and says that he has a seat reserved. He is to my immediate left. Not an ideal spot. But I'd rather have him there then not playing at all.

Anyways game progresses, I have built up my 200 buy in to 400. So I'm not super deep. Mr T got lucky with some hands and has about 1200 in front easily covering hero.

OTTH

Mr T opens up UTG with a 50 dollar raise. Standard stuff for him. Everyone folds. I am in the Big blind. I look down to see a mediocre starting hand of 6-7cc. I'm not sure what to do and decide I will try to talk my way to a tell.

I say "wow, you really don't want anyone to call with a raise like that, scared to play a hand?" I goad him.

He replies "I have Q-8" suited".

Now the thing is MR T may be a lot of things but he is NOT a liar. I am nearly 100% sure he has Q-8 suited. he has done this before and announced his cards and has NEVER lied. But I also know I am a slight underdog. But if I flop a 6 or a 7 I become a huge favorite. I am playing at a huge advantage with him not knowing my cards but I know his.

Raising makes no sense as I am an equity underdog. MR T could easily go all in.

Do I call?
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Old 03-08-2020, 05:17 PM   #2
reaper6788
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Fold before table talk
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Old 03-08-2020, 06:56 PM   #3
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Depends. Do you plan on bluffing him if you don't hit the flop?
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:00 PM   #4
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

How is this a question? If you’re sure then obviously call. I would have folded before engaging in table talk though.

Btw direct right of a guy who’s opening Q8s to 25x UTG is the best position at the table.
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:34 PM   #5
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Pictures or it didn't happen...... fold pre. Lol
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:40 PM   #6
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Easy fold pre vs a maniac. SC go way down in value. Just pick a hand with high card value and call down.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:09 PM   #7
thenewoldpro
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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Originally Posted by uberkuber View Post
Depends. Do you plan on bluffing him if you don't hit the flop?
If an Ace or King falls I will bluff. Since he knows I could be calling with one. If I hit he’s drawing nearly dead. But anything on the flop that connects and no way. Flop is 10-9-2 for example and I’d never bluff.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:10 PM   #8
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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How is this a question? If you’re sure then obviously call. I would have folded before engaging in table talk though.

Btw direct right of a guy who’s opening Q8s to 25x UTG is the best position at the table.
Confused. Why is this a good thing? Not what I expected.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:14 PM   #9
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
How is this a question? If you’re sure then obviously call. I would have folded before engaging in table talk though.

Btw direct right of a guy who’s opening Q8s to 25x UTG is the best position at the table.
Yeah this.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:27 PM   #10
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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Confused. Why is this a good thing? Not what I expected.
Would you rather be the 1st person to act or the last person to act after seeing what the rest of the table does against his massive sizings?
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:05 PM   #11
hitchens97
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

In verbal tells, people will often mislead, but they will very rarely flat out lie. The trouble is, we're not getting great odds here, and we're behind. I think if we call, we have to be prepared to shove/bet big most boards not containing a Q or 8.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:12 PM   #12
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Is it too nitty to say that calling a 25x pre with 67 makes you, and not Villain, the maniac?

You're pretty close a dog 60% of the time, and you need a pretty specific flop to continue, especially since both of you know what he has (assuming he's the only honest player left in poker, as you contend). That seems like it would make it difficult to get more money in post if you hit your big-time flop.

It'd be a lot different if you had other callers in there, but HU? Probably not.

67s is a hand you use to stack tags, not maniacs. Use the topshelf for that.
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:21 PM   #13
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

This situation - whether we know his cards or not - is a place holder for all situations where we decide to limp with low SC's.

Range over range we are pretty much always the underdog.

In this particular case our big blind is already in the pot, but if it were not already in there, this is Exhibit A for reserving our limping of small SC's to "in position only" - OK, at the very least "preferably in position to maniacs or loose players".
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:24 PM   #14
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

All in pre
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:39 PM   #15
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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All in pre
I could actually get behind this if you're not going to just fold. If you're continuing against a 25x open because you believe his statement, then make him put his stack in with that hand. The problem here is if you believe he would actually GII, then we're obviously behind getting our stack in with 7 high. I'd need to believe that he's both being truthful and able to fold to a jam.
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Old 03-09-2020, 01:38 AM   #16
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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Is it too nitty to say that calling a 25x pre with 67 makes you, and not Villain, the maniac?

You're pretty close a dog 60% of the time, and you need a pretty specific flop to continue, especially since both of you know what he has (assuming he's the only honest player left in poker, as you contend). That seems like it would make it difficult to get more money in post if you hit your big-time flop.

It'd be a lot different if you had other callers in there, but HU? Probably not.

67s is a hand you use to stack tags, not maniacs. Use the topshelf for that.
I would never call if I didn’t know what his cards are. But knowing what I did, it seemed tempting. If I hit a pair, i can bet it out and he will fish for his 8 or queen as long as there’s no overheard to the queen.
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Old 03-09-2020, 09:09 AM   #17
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Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Fold. I don’t even understand why you’d even bother trying to hit gin. Is he going to go broke if you smash?
As far as your position, I think being to the right of a maniac is the best spot to be in. You get to see how everyone else responds before you do. It’s also much easier to trap in this spot. You limp, maniac raises, people call light because he’s a maniac, gets back to you and you repop. Most of the time taking down a good sized pot without ever seeing a flop.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:31 PM   #18
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Would we really jam flop if we flatted with an overcard and hit though? I think not. So planning to bluff jam an A or K along with our 6 or 7 seems like a flawed plan. He blocks some of our straights and occasionally he'll block our flush too. Jamming flush draws on some textures may also work less than we think vs a maniac who I assume doesn't have much of a fold button if he routinely drops 2k at a 100 BB 1/2 game. Just fold this hand and wait for a hand with more equity. Any pair or over card. Raise 99+, Q9+, AK. Jam most flops. Flat any other hand that's ahead. Why draw for 25x OOP when he'll give us better spots later?
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:44 PM   #19
thenewoldpro
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

Him being to my left is a mixed bag. It costs me value. For example, one time I was holding pocket 9s. Flop came 9–4-4. Another player went all in and I called, naturally. But Mr T folded and said he may have called but once I called he knew he was dead. He had pocket 10s.

Can’t get in with small pairs and suited connectors easily. Sometime mr T will pop and sometimes he will not.
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:58 PM   #20
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

This is a great and super interesting spot...some of you guys never sneak-played cards for quarters against your friends when you were little kids and it shows. Not so much for this hand in question but for future hands esp if you two are regulars. IF your read is right, thats SUPER profitable in the future. You wanna find out how reliable the read is, and find out who else seems to be aware of it. Also find out if hes capable of EVER lying or if it really is a 100% type of tell.

Id prob fold here and maybe pretend I folded something big to try to get a show (but then the whole table sees it too). Or even better, show one card hoping he'll show you one. Youll get in plenty of better spots with him than OOP 25x pre with 7 high. But Id try like hell to develop and keep a really good and friendly relationship with him
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:37 PM   #21
thenewoldpro
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

There’s really no need for A read. He’s just not lying. He wants action. He will challenge me. He considers me a nit. I’m probably not a nit on a standard table but I am compared to him.
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:39 PM   #22
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

The thing about a whale is.. it’s a race against time. He has accumulated 1200 in sweet chips and will probably lose them all away. But there’s 7 other players trying to take them. So I think I need to take a few more chances.
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:54 PM   #23
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

25X raise pre.
Hero has 7 high (it doesn't matter that you have 76 soooted).

What should hero do?

Snap fold. Next hand.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:19 PM   #24
reaper6788
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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25X raise pre.
Hero has 7 high (it doesn't matter that you have 76 soooted).

What should hero do?

Snap fold. Next hand.
The snap part of this is key. Don't even get into the table talk.
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Old 03-10-2020, 12:30 AM   #25
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Re: Maniac tells me what his cards are..do I call?

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The snap part of this is key. Don't even get into the table talk.
Right.

This whole table talk conversation is ridiculous, too.

If V doesn't actually have Q8s, then he's not lying to you; he's playing poker. You are playing a game that allows deception. The pot is heads up. Table talk is permitted. When people tell me things at the poker table, I ignore it. Why? Because odds are that they are playing poker. And the last time that I checked, you are allowed to bluff in this game.
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