Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk
Hi all,
1/2 at MD Live Casino. Hero $110,
Hero limps behind in MP with 33, calls BB raise of $12. Four other callers, including V in LP pot $60.
Limp/calling is NOT part of a solid ss strat. Yes, open fold. You played this hand to gamble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Top up pre and don't limp/call small PPs with a half-stack.
If only it was that easy. I'm guessing OP is short stacking on purpose and is up $10 on the session. Topping up isn't always an option, and learning what ss concepts still apply with a 50-100bb stack is crucial to being a good short stacker. Its really not that hard. If you can raise 10%+ of your stack pre and still get called on a regular basis, then we are right back in the ss wheelhouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
Bet more than $10. As played people always have it when they raise rivers in checked down pots, but your sizing may have induced, so it’s close and I’d call.
Had you bet $45 and still gotten raised you’d have an easy fold, and you get more value.
Good points. Even $30 gets the job done. OP you have to b/f for roughly the same amount you would b/c or b/3! You can size down a little when b/f, but go too far and you start inducing bluffs you didn't want to see and good players will pick up on this sizing tell and start punishing you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo
I think people bluff the river here all the time. I'd say bluff or thin value from V is WAY more likely than a flush.
Wut?
Maybe if we were hu, or if the pot was bigger. In this spot, it is almost never a bluff or a worse hand value owning. The only reason to call is because the terrible sizing we chose may have induced some spazz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
The short stack hate in this forum should stop.
Do you realize that short stacks also have +EV opportunities that are not available for big stacks?
There is no concrete evidence that I'm aware of that full stacks make significantly more money than short stacks, and short stack strategies are easier and lower variance to play.
SS strats require less thinking as you are faced with fewer decisions, but it is not easier. It's much easier to just say f-it and limp/call with any hand you feel like playing regardless of position, stack size, ect.... Its much more difficult to sit there and fold your marginal hands and watch the monkeys fling poo at each other and watch while the Kxs you just folded make the nut flush vs. a fish that l/c from ep with T7s.
Also I don't think you understand variance. SS is low swings, high variance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
All well and groovy but not automatically overcalling small pockets is one of the first adjustments if you want to short stack.
BINGO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Short stack strategies are for just that, short stacks. Half stacks are neither fish nor foul. They are too deep for a lot of short-stack maneuvers, and too shallow for full-stack value extraction.
Also, short stack strategies are definitely not lower variance. They are easier, but they are much higher variance. This has been shown empirically, not just theoretically, by mpethy's statistical review, but is also very intuitive, as SS strat involves a lot of PF and OTF all-ins, which will usually be approx flipping when called. Obviously, a high variance approach.
Last, but not least, limp-calling to set mine is almost never part of a winning SS strategy.
This is something I struggled with in the beginning, but quickly came to the conclusion that anything less than 100bb can and should be played as a short stack. As I mentioned, if we can get 10%+ of eff stack in pre, then we are right where we need to be. The larger pf sizing we see in live poker allows for this because it's not out of line to raise to $15-$20+ @ 1/2 or 1/3 and this sets up good SPR to b/gii otf or for a pot/pot line to gii by the turn.
The reason I made this post is because OP already knows ALL OF THIS, but continues to post hands that violate the most basic, fundamental rules of short-stacking. (read: STOP LIMP/CALLING!)
I get that you are doing work away from the table to improve your game, but the most important skill any player can have is discipline. Knowing what to do is useless if we don't have the discipline to do it IRL.
Otherwise, we are just gambooling like all the fish.