Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2018, 10:58 AM   #1
twitcherroo
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 731
Lots wrong here to discuss

$1/2 Saturday - a particularly spazzy game. Three V’s working hard to give their stacks away. Calling AI’s w/ 62o, Q4o, J2o, K3o just to name a few. ATC are ahead of V’s range. There is no fold button. It’s mixed between super ag and passive but super sticky.

H $260 UTG w/ As9x. H limps in as several recent pots have gone to show down where A3 or something wins on an A high board and 3 steets of betting including river calls. I figure I fold the $2 to any pre flop pressure but sticky V’s will pay me off super light. I expect A9o to be ahead of V’s limp/calling range. Clearly folding here can’t be bad. Raising would do nothing narrow ranges or reduce number of players to flop. 1-2 limps to main V on button who limps.

V ($350) super loose and sticky. Said he won $4k on a bad beat hand a couple of months ago so I think V is treating poker like a fee roll right now.

Flop ($9)
9s8s2s

Checks to H, H makes it $12, folds to V who makes it $35. Folds back to H, H? I can’t be in that bad of shape here. V should have raised an over pair w/ spade preflop. Could easily have 2p or 1p and FD or really any made flush. Flatting seems terrible and no way i’m Folding so that means i’m Raising, and any raise really is pot committing me, correct?

Thanks.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #2
tmo1120
journeyman
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 220
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

I think you could bet smaller on flop, like 6 or 7; I think you should raise here as well especially if you think he has some 9x hands in his range; I don't think flatting is terrible tho, if you think you are well ahead of his range you could opt to keep some of the hands you have crushed in but you did say that he is basically a calling station so 3-4x size raise seems reasonable
tmo1120 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:55 AM   #3
RoyalRumble
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Not sure why flatting is terrible? Agree with poster above.
RoyalRumble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:32 PM   #4
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,673
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

V called from the blinds? I’d call and evaluate.

I think sizing is fine. Anything less than $10 is too small at a $1/2 game.
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #5
twitcherroo
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 731
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k View Post
V called from the blinds? I’d call and evaluate.

I think sizing is fine. Anything less than $10 is too small at a $1/2 game.
Sorry, wasn’t clear in OP. V is on the button.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #6
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,125
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Raise pre in these conditions if you need to play every hand. Post flop stack off before river one way or another. Raise, call, check call turn, whatever you do just gii.
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:09 PM   #7
Ragequit99
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 2,197
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Grunch

It depends how passive this V has been previously. If he's the one who has been raising and GII with air then TPTK+NFD is getting called by way worse if you shove so shoving is clear value. Just do whatever to get all the chips in ASAP before he changes his mind.

If on the other hand this V is one of the extremely sticky but passive villains then I think you're better off just flatting because you're likely behind to an extremely passive player's raising range on this flop but you have plenty of equity. In this scenario your raise is not getting better to fold (V is very very sticky) and you're not getting called by worse (V is very passive so raise us 2-pair+)
Ragequit99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:23 PM   #8
twitcherroo
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 731
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Amana - what does raising here accomplish that limping doesn’t? Asking because I don’t normally play against a range as uncapped as these 3 V’s. 2nd contributor is the other 2 maniac fish either went broke or left and I basically hadn’t played a meaningful hand in 2 hours so I was definitely opening up to try and get into a hand w/ V before he left or went broke. Is this sound thinking? Thanks.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:24 PM   #9
twitcherroo
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 731
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Ragequit - V has been aggro, sticky and maniacal.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 01:31 PM   #10
Ragequit99
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 2,197
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

I'm happy limping if I'll see a flop. I'm not raising A9o with a bunch of tighter players in the game alongside the lunatics because I'm still putting myself at risk with a rubbish AX.

If V is a maniac then I think you can flat flop or raise - he'll keep betting if you flat anyway but he'll also continue Vs the raise. Do whatever you prefer.

Yes you're pot committed already Vs a maniac. Never ever folding.
Ragequit99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 03:06 PM   #11
ImAllInNow
Pooh-Bah
 
ImAllInNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 4,670
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Just fold preflop. The looseness of the game does not change the fact that the collective ranges of 8 unknown hands makes A9o a bad hand.

On the flop, I would probably check this in a normal game (get to showdown, realize my flush equity cheaply, etc.) but in a game this loose, I think bet/call or bet/3-bet seem fine.

Flatting the raise is not terrible. You're letting opponent continue to barrel and you're not value-owning yourself the times you're beat.
ImAllInNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 07:36 PM   #12
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,125
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragequit99 View Post
I'm happy limping if I'll see a flop. I'm not raising A9o with a bunch of tighter players in the game alongside the lunatics because I'm still putting myself at risk with a rubbish AX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
Amana - what does raising here accomplish that limping doesn’t? Asking because I don’t normally play against a range as uncapped as these 3 V’s. 2nd contributor is the other 2 maniac fish either went broke or left and I basically hadn’t played a meaningful hand in 2 hours so I was definitely opening up to try and get into a hand w/ V before he left or went broke. Is this sound thinking? Thanks.
Basically my view is the opposite of what ragequit wrote. I’m raising to apply pressure to the tighter ranges and more often play w the guys calling all ins with 62 and Q4 because if they’re doing that they’re gonna call $10 pre. It also makes for an easier postflop dynamic with the “good” players where it’ll be easier to play against them when they’re in the pot. Also makes it more likely to get into dream spots like this one (yes this is a dream spot).
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:39 PM   #13
twitcherroo
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 731
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Thanks for the feedback everyone. At a minimum I feel good that I noticed something I thought was exploitable, defined a plan to go after it and went after it.

SPOILER:

H 3b to $105, V took about 45 seconds, asked me how much I had behind, and went all-in. $155 more for H to call. Obviously when I 3b there I'm committed and snap call. V shows Qs8h for 2nd pair and 3rd nut flush draw. I thought I played it reasonably well, but wanted a luck-box reality check. Thanks.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 03:37 AM   #14
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24,532
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Pre is bad

Leading the flop is defensible but check is still better most of the time

Re-raising also seems bad

Last edited by monikrazy; 09-18-2018 at 03:43 AM.
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 04:21 AM   #15
Ragequit99
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 2,197
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Basically my view is the opposite of what ragequit wrote.
Good sign you're onto a sensible plan

To be fair if I were sat there looking at the table myself and can see the tight players have shut down because of the maniacs then I don't mind raising some crap hands that are nevertheless well ahead of the maniacs' preflop calling ranges. However, I'm not entirely sure this is the case from OP so I'm erring on the side of caution (yes, OK just folding-pre is more cautious).

The thing is in my game generally it is only the very nittiest players who are shutting down and waiting for big hands Vs the maniacs. Generally everyone's just loosening up in this scenario, all more than happy to gamble for stacks postflop with the really loose players. This means that I expect to get called by both the maniacs and the regs when I open A9o and go massively MW to the flop OOP with a RIO hand with little speculative upside.

This flop is a miracle and I think we're maybe becoming a bit results oriented (flop result if not showdown).
Ragequit99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 10:31 AM   #16
shorn7
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,123
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Raise pre in these conditions if you need to play every hand. Post flop stack off before river one way or another. Raise, call, check call turn, whatever you do just gii.
Pretty much this. Vs the player described I think I just 3! OTF and call a ship.
shorn7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 10:32 AM   #17
shorn7
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,123
Re: Lots wrong here to discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
Thanks for the feedback everyone. At a minimum I feel good that I noticed something I thought was exploitable, defined a plan to go after it and went after it.

SPOILER:

H 3b to $105, V took about 45 seconds, asked me how much I had behind, and went all-in. $155 more for H to call. Obviously when I 3b there I'm committed and snap call. V shows Qs8h for 2nd pair and 3rd nut flush draw. I thought I played it reasonably well, but wanted a luck-box reality check. Thanks.
Played is muy bueno. NH OP
shorn7 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online