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Old 10-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #1
Medicchris
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Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Hey all, first time caller, long time listener.

1/2 NL at my local casino. Decent table, moderate action. Most C bets are being called, then folded on a turn bet. 2 hours in, no massive pots, (probably 1 $200ish pot that was 3 way to showdown).

Hand in question. I'm on the button with QQ with $290 in my stack.
UTG1-limps ($320 behind)
UTG3-limps ($100 behind)
LJ-limps ($175 behind)

I raise to $15, SB, BB fold, all three limps come along to the flop ($63 pot)

Flop: Q 7 5

UTG1 leads out with $15
UTG3 and LJ call
I raise to $45, UTG 1&2 fold, LJ calls. ($198 pot)

Turn: 8

LJ checks, I fire $85, LJ folds and shows a Q

I take down $192 after the rake, tip the dealer $2.

To be honest, I had the UTG1 on the case queen, folding to my reraise thinking I out kicked him or had a set. I put the LJ on a draw (flush or strait). He had been calling large raises to that point chasing with low and mid connectors. After the turn, I'm not thinking value, but rather push him off of one of the original draws, or the potential diamond draw that shows up on the turn. Still a nice pot to pull in, but do you guys think I left money on the table with the turn bet?
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:10 AM   #2
Playbig2000
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

I would have actually bet a lil more ott and maybe more otf but that's fine. There's nothing more you could have done. You def can't start slowing down there.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:24 AM   #3
Jarretman
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Raise more pre (in most table conditions) and raise more flop.

Bet more on turn. It's unlikely he has a Q and that card adds tonnes of draws in his range that picked up additional outs.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:44 AM   #4
Dizzyqtp
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

sizing is way too small
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:54 AM   #5
Medicchris
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
sizing is way too small


I think sizing is table based. Most pre flop raises were 8-10, so 15 was a larger pre flop. $85 on the turn was the largest post flop bet I had seen in those two hours except for an all in.


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Old 10-19-2017, 11:56 AM   #6
M'Tuna
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

On the flop, I think raising to more like $65-80 is much better than $45 after the two $15 calls in the middle. This sizing sets up a turn ship against any of the three players who might call the flop raise.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:57 AM   #7
Medicchris
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Raise more pre (in most table conditions) and raise more flop.

Bet more on turn. It's unlikely he has a Q and that card adds tonnes of draws in his range that picked up additional outs.


Although he ended up having a queen, I put him on a draw. I figured $85 was just about 1/2 pot, and with his remaining stack, he would only be left with about $60 if he called. Even though he was chasing all night, he'd never called a strong bet on the turn.


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Old 10-19-2017, 12:39 PM   #8
Medicchris
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

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Originally Posted by M'Tuna View Post
On the flop, I think raising to more like $65-80 is much better than $45 after the two $15 calls in the middle. This sizing sets up a turn ship against any of the three players who might call the flop raise.


Yeah, after the hand that was my immediate regret. I was thinking $60. I was in a little conundrum, I wanted a call from whoever had the Q, but needed a large enough bet to push draws. Ironically that's what ended up happening, I just had my reads backward.


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Old 10-19-2017, 01:12 PM   #9
pocketzeroes
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Preflop sizing is too small. Definitely 4-5+x it on flop. If they're always folding top pair, then do this with other hands.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:13 PM   #10
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicchris View Post
Yeah, after the hand that was my immediate regret. I was thinking $60. I was in a little conundrum, I wanted a call from whoever had the Q, but needed a large enough bet to push draws. Ironically that's what ended up happening, I just had my reads backward.


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It's often more likely you'll get calls from draws, especially flush draws, and most top pair hands to fold.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:36 PM   #11
GenghisKhan
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicchris View Post
Hand in question. I'm on the button with QQ with $290 in my stack.
UTG1-limps ($320 behind)
UTG3-limps ($100 behind)
LJ-limps ($175 behind)
I raise to $15, SB, BB fold, all three limps come along to the flop ($63 pot)
Flop: Q 7 5
UTG1 leads out with $15
UTG3 and LJ call
I raise to $45, UTG 1&2 fold, LJ calls. ($198 pot)
Turn: 8
LJ checks, I fire $85, LJ folds and shows a Q
I take down $192 after the rake, tip the dealer $2.
With any playable hand you decide to got into the pot after 3 limpers upfront you raise like $10 standard 1st one in plus $5 per each limper. In your case will be $25 pre.

Now, about your flopped Set. The sets have 3-streets of value for sure. You usually looking to stack someone. Most of the times a big pot does not pan out because it takes two big hands to get play for stacks in a big pot. You actually are no looking to stack villain's one pair hands because you can't. Your target hands are the big hands and you hope villain has one. Your plan is not something like "OK, let me try to take this player's stack if he's got a Queen for TP" - You target smaller sets or TP+draws+2overs or 2pair. If villain has TP with weak kicker he's gonna give you action for one street as usual like all weak players do. You got to do your best and try it. Sometimes works but many times doesn't and you drag a medium pot. Maybe in your situation you could have extracted another street of value from AQ but obviously he got Q+trash (Q9, Q4) or some other weak Queen.

That's why you make money when opponents call your preflop raise with trash and get rid of it after calling the flop. Usually we get two streets of value unless villain flop something strong by his standards.

Last edited by GenghisKhan; 10-19-2017 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:41 PM   #12
SemiCharmed
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

I like $17-18 pre, $60-65 on the flop, and probably a little less on the turn. $75-80 probably.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:45 PM   #13
Medicchris
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
It's often more likely you'll get calls from draws, especially flush draws, and most top pair hands to fold.


I feel like that's true at a higher limit or with better, more knowledgeable players. But a lot of the more rec players I've seen like to call down with top pair and are quick to ditch draws if they're pressured.


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Old 10-19-2017, 01:46 PM   #14
SemiCharmed
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicchris View Post
I feel like that's true at a higher limit or with better, more knowledgeable players. But a lot of the more rec players I've seen like to call down with top pair and are quick to ditch draws if they're pressured.


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Yeah most 1/2 fish aren't letting a Queen go on the turn there.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:57 AM   #15
Tomark
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

On the flop, your $45 raise was betting $30 into a $120 pot which is WAY too small. $75 is the absolute bare minimum here.

Dont post results in OP. Also id say flop bet sizing is the most interesting question here. I am surprised UTG folded, which makes me know that if you had gone $100 here everyone likely wouldve folded, but I think $100 on flop is the best idea, itll pot commit whoever calls except for UTG. As played, oh well he folded. Remember that you can barrel him off of top pair in the future.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:16 AM   #16
Buster65
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

I feel like I know how to beat this game....

(hint: it's not making hands)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicchris View Post
Most C bets are being called, then folded on a turn bet. 2 hours in, no massive pots,
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:58 AM   #17
AriesRam
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Like everyone else said, more of flop.

Looks like V has 115 left on turn, and the pot is 180 or so. Shove. V is going to be committed either way and maybe the shove looks bluffier.

Shame he didn't hit two pair.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:22 PM   #18
Jarretman
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Re: Lost value on flopped set of Q's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicchris View Post
Although he ended up having a queen, I put him on a draw. I figured $85 was just about 1/2 pot, and with his remaining stack, he would only be left with about $60 if he called. Even though he was chasing all night, he'd never called a strong bet on the turn.


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If you sized the flop better you could have jammed the turn less than psb.
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