depends on villain

Playing TAG or even LAG is not about starting hand charts. You all are missing the boat. Playing aggressively is only capable once you can put your opponent on a hand not a "range". You will loose a lot of money in a live game where a good player can look at you and know what you are doing. Sure, you may be able to run over some weak players but there are going to be a few of us sitting there who know what we, and you, are doing. If you are reading this thread and worrying about specific hand holdings then you are not getting it. If you try to push with these you will be taken advantage of. You will probably think to yourself or even mutter outloud "how did he call me with a pair of sixes???"

Playing aggressively is more about being in "tune" with the game. It is recognizing the ebb and flow of the trends. I can not express enough the need for you not to force your way through it. There is a certain finesse that is required. This only comes in live poker after many hours. You get to a point where you just know. You get to apoint where you look around at the table and the players kind of look at you and wonder, they seem confused, they call and they are beat- they fold when they are ahead- you can see it not only in their eyes but in their whole presence. When you recognize this you are playing aggressively, you have "it"!

No, just no. Not sure what else to say, it's pretty rare to put a person on one hand.

that post describes someone using the force, not playing poker.

Sounds like a good intro for rounders 2

So then why in a live game, where purely opening seems to be rare, are we thinking of how opening ranges determine whether we play as a TAG. Shouldn't there be more concentration on what to iso with?

I'm sorry if that comes off as critical, as I also think TAG is mis-characterized on these forums.

(I think) he was just using opening ranges to illustrate his point because there are the fewest variables/possible debates, not because it is the most important. He was making a point more than writing a "playbook".

Probably the #1 mis-characterized term

Yup. Iso-ing ranges are heavily villain dependent. LAPPY fit or fold on the flop is very different from LAPPY lol **** it I'm calling. Also, Gap concept, and a few other things.

This is a very good thread. Its given me some perspective to opening up my game. However, that said, i think that the information posted by op is closer to somewhere between tag and lag, (and closer to lag) vs nit/clueless and tag. Imho @ 1/2. At 2/5 where I have very little seat time, may be different.

I don't see how lp q8+ can be TAG at the same time 3 betting AK, effectively turning our AK to what normally is QQ+ in 1/2.

I tried this recently at vegas live 1/2 w/ exact range (6 sessions) and I not only felt like the table captain/maniac but 3 locals at the same table confirmed such. Roughly, over 5 hrs I believe I was at approx 33/25/10. (Took a 70 hand/2 hour sample)

After 30 minutes one local takes a call and tells his buddy on the otherend that he's right around where he started (he was down roughly 40bbs) and some guy was 'lagging' it up. And about 4 hrs later another local that replaced the last local was 3 bet pf by me (i had a hand top of my range), and he mucks and says 'I see I'm sitting on the wrong side of ya. Keep 3 betting me son'. (Lol?).

Last local who had position on me direcct to left started to ask me about my ranges. He started at aqo, and after a while started stating 68 suited.

I also do realize the subtle difference of playing TAG, and having the image of tag, which has been mentioned by others.

However, then I did 2 sessions with a wider 'more laggy' range (incl any suited k,q,j,t incl j2) and the tables could not really distinguish the difference.

33/25 is maniacal at a full ring game, especially live 1/2. Full ring 'TAG' is something like 17/14, LAG is something like 22/17.

I think the thread is kind of drifting off of the topic ikestoys intended. We have some poker-jedi claiming to be able to put villains on the exact hand. We are having people start to open up their range too much. People are confusing the system of playing TAG with a fixed set of starting hands.

TAG is really more a philosophy/approach to the game than a fixed set of hands/fixed way of playing them. The idea is to have a fairly strong range for the situation most of the time, and most of the time to be aggressive with that range. It's a good default when sitting down in an unknown game from which to then make game specific adjustments. That's all it is.

There are games where you can make more money playing other styles or deviating from TAG. Poker is a dynamic game. There is no dominant fixed strategy. Arguing that TAG is best or LAG is best is like saying you should always go with 'rock' in rock-paper-scissors.

To be honest, I don't think that the posters' main problem on this forum is that they don't play TAG. I think it's:

- not knowing why they do things and just doing them because they want to/think they are supposed to
- not having a plan
- many forms of soft/hard tilt
- not understanding their opponents' specific exploitable flaws and not exploiting them

If the above were not the issues, we wouldn't be debating whether to ISO QTo from MP. You would know whether or not it makes sense to do it based on your specific opponents and would adjust accordingly. (As a quick exercise offline, can you come up with what player tendencies you would do this against vs. not?)

My advice is to think about why you are going to play a certain way in a given game, come up with a solid game plan that you are willing to adjust based on new information, and then work hard to have the discipline to stick to the plan.

I, along with others, just realised how non-tag I am.

Thanks for the confirmation. I think that session my swing was at a maximum at 400bb down, and roughly 150bb up at the end.

Pros: getting hero called twice with bottom pair no kicker, getting there with a backdoor fd and getting paid the full freight.

Cons: getting stacked twice with weird situations since people are now much more content slow playing sets.

QFT

My opening ranges don't translate 35/25... like not even close.

i dont believe this to be true at all if you are 100bb+

Looks like you are playing something like a 22/18

im a live player only what does things like 35/25 mean

You play 35% of your hands and open-raise 25% of them. This translates as LAG play online.

This whole thread is a little off. TAG is Tight and Aggressive. A nit is tight and passive without the nuts. The opening ranges are the same. Tags and Nits are not playing KTs or A5s. That is not to say that not playing those hands are bad, just that those are not hands a tight player plays. IF they were, then what do you call a guy that plays so tight that KQ is not in his range?

TAG is a good strategy to start with. In fact most poker books recommend it because they know their audience is trying to learn the game. People get into the mindset that TAG is perfect poker, and when they find mathematically sound logical reasons to play other hands in specific circumstances, they just assume that "Good Tags" play those hands in those instances. Wrong, Tags play tight and very good players play something other than tag. When they find the logical reasons to play a large variety of hands in a variety of circumstances and play those hands in a +EV manner, they are no longer Tags, they are Lags. Sometimes, but not often, they are good LAGs

My point is that having a good reason to play A5 from the BB that is proven to be +EV does not mean that someone who plays that then is a TAG. It means they have progressed a little beyond TAG towards LAG, and that progression if done properly is a good thing.

A TAG plays less than 10% of hands.... usually well below one hand per orbit. Otherwise we need a new term for someone who is truly tight. 15% is good poker, but a little looser than a TAG.

wtf fold AQ utg and 44 from lp?

Um no...that range is 5.7% ..... and also not that I am not advocating playing TAG... just pointing out what TAG is. It is about 10% from any position, because with that tight of a range, position is less important.

Sorry, but this is not tag. This is uber-nit. Just my $0.02.

not talking to you bagzz. just pointing out ops post and the huge flaws in these ranges.

I would advise you re read the OP and focus on what actually matters.