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Old 12-08-2011, 02:37 PM   #1
ikestoys
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LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

All the time in this forum I see stuff like 'Hero has a TAG image. Hero calls MP open with 87o' and I laugh. That isn't TAG dude... at all. It seems like a ton of people have no clue what TAG is. This is important because you can't really play LAG or sLAG until you've mastered TAG.

So, the basics, TAG stands for tight aggressive. This should be pretty obvious but that means you don't play many hands, but when you do you come out firing.

Things TAGs do:

1) TAG raise unopened pots. Yes this means you open with 55 in MP. Simply put, there's not enough 3betting going on in most LLSNL to worry about this being wrong.

2) TAGs raise more in late positions:
This is by no means exact, just a guide:
a. EP - UTG through UTG+2 - 22+, AK, KQ (9.5%) of hands
b. MP - UTG+3-HJ - 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (18%)
c. Late position - 55+,33-22,A2s+,K8s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,A2o+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o +,T9o (33%) of hands

3) TAGs do not call with A8s OOP. Seriously. A typical live player doesn't open more than 15% of their hands, even in later positions. Take A8s and put it against against a top 15% range in pokerstove. A8s is a 55%-45% dog. No this doesn't mean you can call because of pot odds FFS. The 55-45 is a pretty big deal, and without set implied odds you're going to be outplayed postflop. Very few players are good enough to consistently outplay people OOP, don't bother trying.

4) TAGs value bet. TAGs do not check/call when the flush hits after they cbet. TAGs do not 'pot control' very often. TAGs do not slowplay just because we have a big hand.

5) TAGs bet/fold in LLSNL because most villains aren't TAGs either.

6) TAGs 3bet AK the vast majority of the time.

I'll add more to this as I think about it.

Last edited by ikestoys; 12-08-2011 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:47 PM   #2
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Nice post. Perhaps, I should be opening my range significantly. I don't open for hands like KTo in MP. Might do when I have more skill.

Please post a number 7 explaining what tags call with oop...
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:51 PM   #3
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

I am a pure tag

Also, I agree ikestoy. You're one of the better posters here. A lot can be learned from other people reading your posts. I laugh at all these supposed tag players calling with trash oop.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:54 PM   #4
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny 99 View Post
Nice post. Perhaps, I should be opening my range significantly. I don't open for hands like KTo in MP. Might do when I have more skill.

Please post a number 7 explaining what tags call with oop...
Depends on pot odds, Stack sizes, Who you're playing against, How well do you know the people you're playing against, What their ranges is, Are they a station? Will they fold? etc..

You can't say it's correct to call with hand X 100% of the time because there is too many variables.

General concept, Calling oop with dominated hands is a very bad idea.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:54 PM   #5
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Originally Posted by Johnny 99 View Post
Nice post. Perhaps, I should be opening my range significantly. I don't open for hands like KTo in MP. Might do when I have more skill.

Please post a number 7 explaining what tags call with oop...
This may be a bit controversial, but I truly believe that most players in LLSNL would be better served folding just about everything other than pocket pairs and KQ, AJ+ OOP.

3bet JJ+, AK, call 22-TT (assuming stacks are somewhat deep), AJ, AQ, KQ. Fold everything else. There's very little reason to push money around in the blinds 9 handed. You have 7 other spots to win that money back.
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:57 PM   #6
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Only thing I would add is any suited Ax in the BB
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:01 PM   #7
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Only thing I would add is any suited Ax in the BB
No, calling A5s OOP is NOT tag. Not even a little bit.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:06 PM   #8
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
This may be a bit controversial, but I truly believe that most players in LLSNL would be better served folding just about everything other than pocket pairs and KQ, AJ+ OOP.

3bet JJ+, AK, call 22-TT (assuming stacks are somewhat deep), AJ, AQ, KQ. Fold everything else. There's very little reason to push money around in the blinds 9 handed. You have 7 other spots to win that money back.
I don't think this is controversial at all. My oop calling range is a little bit wider due to various factors and not a 100% thing, but I agree with you. I was always told I'm a bit nitty, but playing oop is extremely difficult and for ppl in the LLSNL games (1/2 and even 2/5 at times) you're better off just playing a nit style.


Quote:
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Only thing I would add is any suited Ax in the BB
Ew NO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
No, calling A5s OOP is NOT tag. Not even a little bit.
I agree. It's countless the # of people that say they are only playing for flush reasons and they call with A5s for this reason and then get stacked on a AT5 type flop (and/or spew a bunch of money on an Axx flop).
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:09 PM   #9
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Perhaps our definitions of TAG differ but I consider myself fairly close to a TAG and I'm never folding Axs in the BB
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:09 PM   #10
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
This may be a bit controversial, but I truly believe that most players in LLSNL would be better served folding just about everything other than pocket pairs and KQ, AJ+ OOP.

3bet JJ+, AK, call 22-TT (assuming stacks are somewhat deep), AJ, AQ, KQ. Fold everything else. There's very little reason to push money around in the blinds 9 handed. You have 7 other spots to win that money back.
As livegrinder has already stated I don't consider it controversial at all. I'm guessing there are many times you deviate from this as a strategy but I think as a starting point it is great. However, you also have to get over the boredom and "I have such great post flop skills" delusion and that is where many will never succeed. As I've said in other threads, throwing terminology around helps people justify decisions that are actually made because, just like fish who have never read or even thought about poker strat in their lives, their desire to do the more fun thing of seeing flops/trying to make hands/trying to win pots eventually trumps all else. This is something that even effects good internet players that simply can't handle the boredom, much the same way that I could never, ever 24 table.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:12 PM   #11
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Perhaps our definitions of TAG differ but I consider myself fairly close to a TAG and I'm never folding Axs in the BB
So you'll call with A7s in the BB if a guy raises to $12 from MP1 and it folds to you with stack sizes being $200 deep?

That is a leak my friend.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:20 PM   #12
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Perhaps our definitions of TAG differ but I consider myself fairly close to a TAG and I'm never folding Axs in the BB

If you're a true TAG, you don't call with Axs in the BB to a raise. You might be a MAG, but not a TAG.

MAG = Mad and Aggressive.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:24 PM   #13
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
This may be a bit controversial, but I truly believe that most players in LLSNL would be better served folding just about everything other than pocket pairs and KQ, AJ+ OOP.

3bet JJ+, AK, call 22-TT (assuming stacks are somewhat deep), AJ, AQ, KQ. Fold everything else. There's very little reason to push money around in the blinds 9 handed. You have 7 other spots to win that money back.
AJ is trash OOP IMO.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #14
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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So you'll call with A7s in the BB if a guy raises to $12 from MP1 and it folds to you with stack sizes being $200 deep?

That is a leak my friend.
You've presented the worst possible scenario. If the raise is 12 I would assume we're playing 400 so no, I would want to do this vs. someone with at least 100BB. I also would be more selective when it's coming from that early, unless he was opening light quite often and lastly I much prefer A-2345 as opposed to A7 6-8-9.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:38 PM   #15
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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You've presented the worst possible scenario. If the raise is 12 I would assume we're playing 400 so no, I would want to do this vs. someone with at least 100BB. I also would be more selective when it's coming from that early, unless he was opening light quite often and lastly I much prefer A-2345 as opposed to A7 6-8-9.
lol so you want less equity instead of more.


hyachachahchcachahcha
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:43 PM   #16
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Ike, you seriously don't understand why A5s is going to play better than A7s?
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:51 PM   #17
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Ike, you seriously don't understand why A5s is going to play better than A7s?
Dude, you said you're rather have A2-5 instead of A6-9. That's completely wrong. You get close to the same amount of equity at around A7 v A5, but A7>>>A2, A9>>>A5, etc.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

You didn't answer my question
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:55 PM   #19
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

I would have figured that A5s would play better in a big multiway pot since it has the straight possibilities too.

Just pokerstoved it and the straight doesn't mean much. A6s-9s is better than A2s-5s.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:56 PM   #20
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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You didn't answer my question
lol yes, I do understand why A5 ~= A7, that's not what you said and not what I responded to.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:00 PM   #21
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

ike whats ur meat?
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:01 PM   #22
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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ike whats ur meat?
Steak, ribeye or filet seasoned with light pepper and garlic, seared then cooked at 500F until 130F.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:04 PM   #23
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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Ike, you seriously don't understand why A5s is going to play better than A7s?
It's exactly what I said and when I stove A5s vs A7s vs a 15% range the A5s is just slightly ahead. That being said we all know that A5s is the more playable hand.

I just don't know why anyone wants to give up 44% Eq vs a 15% range in the BB vs a standard raise. I do understand that you're talking specifically to a true TAG but I still believe a good TAG will make this call under most circumstances in the BB
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:06 PM   #24
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

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It's exactly what I said and when I stove A5s vs A7s vs a 15% range the A5s is just slightly ahead. That being said we all know that A5s is the more playable hand.

I just don't know why anyone wants to give up 44% Eq vs a 15% range in the BB vs a standard raise. I do understand that you're talking specifically to a true TAG but I still believe a good TAG will make this call under most circumstances.
You're not good enough to play inferior hands oop with strong reverse implied odds. Sorry.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:07 PM   #25
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Re: LOL, so you think you have a TAG image?

Great response lol, I'll leave you now to tell everyone how to play properly, LMAO.
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