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lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5

01-08-2015 , 08:32 PM
Competent utg plays 5/10 abc tag opens to 35, hero flats mp 5h5s, rec player 60bb flats lp.

My image is pretty laggy, so I'm planning on playing it fast otf.

Flop (105) Jh 7h 5d

Utg leads 100, I raise to 275, lp shoves and utg INSTA reships.

?gii
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:41 PM
why did he bet pot on the flop? FD? would he bet pot with a set to fold people out?

gii and pray for black he has AQhh
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:42 PM
Tough to fold in this spot but seems like only hands villain should play like this are AKhh, AQhh and JJ (maybe 77) so a fold seems right. Any chance he misplays an overpair like this? If so then you have to GII.

Depending how good villain is, you may want to fold pre despite stack sizes (if he's just an ABC player then i'm ok with calling pre).
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:46 PM
The prob is that I have all the sh@$ fd's in my range and we have history so why shove me off worse?
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:51 PM
Why can't he have an overpair given your image? If he thinks you have lots of FDs here, he can easily be shoving with worse.

Call.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi
we have history
does he play his FD's fast and utilize fold equity with them? Does he always cbet pot? What would you think his cbet means, etc etc

If he is a good solid player I don't know why he would want to fold out worse if he has a set there. Of course he would if he had 77 or JJ and he has see you play your FD's like that which the history should tell
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 08:57 PM
with your lag history are you usually flatting mid/low pairs here pre? more importantly is villain good enough to have picked up on it?
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:00 PM
Call...you may or may not be ahead of late position but he only has 60bb...you're playing for the main pot with UTG. Given your image...this should be the spots that you'd be playing for. Do you really think he bets pot on the flop with top set after being the initial raiser?? Yeah 77 would be in there but less likely considering he made it $35 UTG...

Looks as if V is re-shoving for protection and wants to isolate with an overpair (most likely putting you on a range of a number of draws). I'd feel confident getting it in here....
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
Why can't he have an overpair given your image? If he thinks you have lots of FDs here, he can easily be shoving with worse.

Call.
This. Isn't this the dream scenario for a LAG? Isn't this like, the point of having that image? Moreover, you're assuming this villain, who is ABC, is a level 3 thinker. Not to mention you say he insta-shoved? Doesn't a bigger set think for a moment about whether or not he should shove? Unless I'm missing something I GII here. I think you're leveling yourself.

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lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi
The prob is that I have all the sh@$ fd's in my range and we have history so why shove me off worse?
You fastplay your draws like this multiway?

If you have a lag image you can't fold this, people adjust poorly to lag play all the time. 5/T reg should know better then shove an overpair (in fact he should be folding them everytime) in this spot unless you truly overplay your draws in general.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:09 PM
I'd say he has AA,KK or AhKh 90% of time. Why would he ship a top set vs a LAG?
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
does he play his FD's fast and utilize fold equity with them? Does he always cbet pot? What would you think his cbet means, etc etc

If he is a good solid player I don't know why he would want to fold out worse if he has a set there. Of course he would if he had 77 or JJ and he has see you play your FD's like that which the history should tell
My thoughts exactly, so the issue is that I'm getting 2:1 on the call and I def have equity vs overpairs esp with overlay and he should know all that so..
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samspeedstar
Why would he ship a top set vs a LAG?
When he ships there is $1700+ in the middle and only $700 for us to call. Villain doesn't expect us to ever fold a set or two pair on this board. It's a pretty standard shove IMO considering the amount of money in the middle. He is charging max value to draws but if we fold a draw it's not that terrible for him especially since we already put nearly a 3rd of our stack in the middle.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
You fastplay your draws like this multiway?

If you have a lag image you can't fold this, people adjust poorly to lag play all the time. 5/T reg should know better then shove an overpair (in fact he should be folding them everytime) in this spot unless you truly overplay your draws in general.
I'm prob only shoving 86hh and 64hh where I'm like 60% vs whatever. I'd flat to get an overcall with the other guy left to act, if I'm flatting any naked fd at all (which also is unlikely).
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:23 PM
Well, given utg's play, we should ask him how many chips he has. We should also note what our stack size is and compare *cough cough*

Assuming you both have deep stacks.... Since when do ABC players do this with anything other than 2 pair+? 2 pair hands aren't in his utg raising range so that leaves sets. The 3rd player reshipping it actually gives him a perfect reason to re-shove. If he just calls, you're getting a fantastic price to continue with any draw on a very wet board. So there's absolutely no way he's going to flat call with a set.

The only question is whether he is capable of INSTA re-shipping with a different hand. I could see a terrible player incapable of folding AA, or a lag player doing this with say A5, but v doesn't fit those descriptions at all. So unless you have a soul read or if one of you has a pretty short stack (where nut hearts or AA would make perfect sense), I'm folding confidently.

Last edited by discgolfing; 01-08-2015 at 09:28 PM.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by discgolfing
Well, given utg's play, we should ask him how many chips he has. We should also note what our stack size is and compare *cough cough*

.
It's in the title, 200bb each ($1000)
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 09:46 PM
How are you ever folding at this spot? You are ahead of the reshipping range since he should never be shipping sets here.

Ppl get attached to their big pair on a wet-ish board. Go with it.

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lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:08 PM
Set over set = cooler... especially on a wet board with a villain who will shove overs and draws.
Gii.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker
Tough to fold in this spot but seems like only hands villain should play like this are AKhh, AQhh and JJ (maybe 77) so a fold seems right. Any chance he misplays an overpair like this? If so then you have to GII.
Can't tell exactly the bet sizes or stacks remaining, but I'm pretty sure that it's a call if his range is AhKh/AhQh/JJ given our pot-odds.

If folding here is correct this is a spot that separates the good from the not-so-good since I'm never considering folding.

I think it's roughly a pot-sized raise and we have over 35% against that possibly overly-tight range.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all
Can't tell exactly the bet sizes or stacks remaining, but I'm pretty sure that it's a call if his range is AhKh/AhQh/JJ given our pot-odds.
You are potentially right. I'm not sure how exactly the 3rd player affects our equity (obv can only hurt us). On a side note, we have a backdoor flush draw as well that I really didn't consider because it didn't seem important but it essentially doubles our equity vs higher sets.
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01-08-2015 , 10:29 PM
We also need to consider the dynamics the recreation brought to the hand. He overcalled, and ships on our flop raise. what range do he have? pretty much draw or set only, never with Jx with this action but we never know.... and having said that, UTG shoves! JJ screaming so loud!

im puke folding but never never show or tell my hand...
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombonanza
We also need to consider the dynamics the recreation brought to the hand. He overcalled, and ships on our flop raise. what range do he have? pretty much draw or set only, never with Jx with this action but we never know.... and having said that, UTG shoves! JJ screaming so loud!

im puke folding but never never show or tell my hand...
You say that there are lots of draws in our range, so UTG must have JJ...?
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:38 PM
This is a super duper snap, especially with reads.
lol live fold a set 200bb 2/5 Quote
01-08-2015 , 10:41 PM
He 7x opened? If we are flatting a 7x open and flop a set for 200bb we have to be fist-pump gii. I don't see how this is even close.
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01-08-2015 , 10:45 PM
I can't find the fold button on this one boys...
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