ES-~$400 2 V's I play against a lot who are on my level. Probably win ~$22pr hr playing 1/3. None of us crush the game for 10BBs per hr. My money is on them reading 2+2 & probably subscribe to one of those pay to learn sites, as they work & don't play much at all during the week. What else is a poker player to do?

They're 26-30 years old & not married. I believe they make a decent living; they don't wear ear-buds & are almost always watching the hands go down that they're not in. They go for a walk every 1.5hrs or so for 10-15 minutes. And, they don't try to be cool by wearing hoodies with sunglasses, etc. They seem to be like me & go for a walk when they get bored instead of getting splashy. I have never seen them get involved with 6th street chatter about their play, only other's play, trying to pry info. A sure sign of a serious player.

My opening range UTG-UTG+3 is under 10% & they should know this. The only reason I play 77-99 UTG-UTG+3, 10-handed, is because of the BBJ. I open all hands for $13 unless table dynamics dictate more to get it no more than 3 way to the flop.

At this table $15 should do the trick, as I have played very few hands in EP over the last 3 hours & with it being 2am & nothing exciting going on, they should have noticed that my action comes when I'm OTB - OTB+4.

Hero: $415 [they both cover with ~$450 & LJ $480] opens [8 handed] for $15 with 77 & gets called by V1 & V2. V1 is Button +4 & V2 is the Low-jack. Of the 7 other players at the table, these are the 2 I would prefer not to be up against. I do not believe they are friends, as they do not break together. They would have to be keeping it well disguised & are not always at the same table.

We can put both Vs on all PPs, A9s -AQs, AQo, 87s+ any 2 suited Broadway cards. That's only 9.8%% of all starting hands, however, they know me well enough to give me credit opening UTG.
They are also 3! KK+, AKs/o & we should give QQ 3! 50% weight.

Lowjack may have 65s+, hoping blinds come in, but not likely as he prefers to have some high card strength should he flop a pair & some type of draw.

Some would say a TAG would raise AQs in position, but I tell you now, they know I'm tight in EP should know that AQs is a dog vs. my range, i.e., 55-45.
I would want to try & outplay me postflop [holding AQs] if I was up against myself.

I'm also not sure they would expect me to be opening 77 UTG for $15 as I don't recall them ever seeing me showdown 77-99 after I o/r in EP.

Flop: $42 [raked] T86

It is unlikely that they called with J9s, 97s, T8s, 86s, so I wouldn't give those hands more than 20% weight. J9s has 22% equity vs. my range going to the flop, 28.5% to the turn & 34% to the river. They are just not the type to gamble with those hands with so few players in the pot & me having o/r UTG. Maybe I give them & their respect for my o/r in EP too much weight.

So whatz a Hero to do? See ya' all in 24 hours. I know, not the most exciting PAHWM but it was for me.

First off remind me to never play in your game. You think too much about it and that hurts my profits.

I frankly don't see a reason to lead this flop given all you have described as it hits a PFC's range way more than your range. I would c/c and take my gutter equity to the turn. HU I might bet, but multi-way it seems meh to me.

Thats quite alot of words op.

Flop is a range check 3 ways. This means AA checks. 88 checks. AKo checks. 77 checks.

AA is a x/c. 88 is a x/r. AKo is a x/f. 77 is a x/f.

99 might be a x/continue but it would depend on who bet and what sizing.

For the most part though you want to treat mulitway flops with extreme caution, esp. one that favors cold calling ranges (mid pps and sc's)

Cbet $30.

If called, probably giving up on more overcards on the turn (check/folding) - trying to get to showdown cheaply or turbo mucking if faced with a good sized bet.

Double barreling on a brick. (all cards under 4)

I'm guessing you c-bet here and a 9 comes in on the turn, and the board pairs on the river.
Alternatively a 7 comes in on the turn and now you're wondering if you're gonna run your set into a straight.

I'd probably just limp in, basically just hoping to setmine against some of the others at the table. Kinda got the nut low result in that now we're in a bloated pot OOP against the 2 best players at the table with a hand that is mostly always going to flop terrible, so not sure why we're aiming for that (and most results will be something along these lines).

I'd probably cbet small on the flop, like a 1/2 PSB. Decent chance we're still ahead and still protecting our hand. If called, I probably just give up UI. ETA: I don't hate a check/fold as Ava suggests, although I sorta think we give away the pot too often to these guys; which for the most part brings me back to preflop, in that the majority of flops are going to suck, so I'm not sure why were building a big pot if all we're going to do is check/fold a huge precentage of the time.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I can go either way, but since they are putting you on AA/KK/QQ/AK (or should be), I like a bet of at least half pot. They can't continue with much here. If they raise, just fold.

I don't mind a check, either, but I'm pretty much done with the hand if one of them bets, unless it's pretty small and I have the confidence to bet blank turns pretty hard.

Just from my gutfeeling alone, i would guess its a decent sized leak to be C-betting/building a bigger pot here with 77 OOP against two other long term winning players. Like, we have third pair-with a hand that have very small chances of improving on later streets. Also this type of 10 high flop with middling cards hit two flatranges pretty big.

FWIW: one of my pet peeves these days is players that "over C bets" or players that have a way to high of a C-bet frequenzy in all type of hands, both heads up, multiway and on all types of boards with all sorts of hands. Its a very common leak,quite surprisingly actually.

C-betting often is a two edged sword. If you do it too much its pretty easy for many players to pick up on- with the non wanted consequence of diminishing our much wanted fold equity for our C-bet bluffs. Its a balancing act of knowing when its time to put on the brakes.

fyp

Now do what ava says and ckf

Then the plan should have been limp/call/setmine. Unless we're worried about the action going bet/3! preflop, denying us set mining odds I don't see a reason to open raise this from EP.

OP himself said he only played this hand because of BBJ and without it would be a fold. I mean if we continue with that logic (hit a set/quads or just open fold), then it's obviously a ck/fold, but now that we're here, we need a plan to win the pot somehow.

If it's your first session against Vs, balancing at low stakes is irrelevant.

I don't think we should be x any sets here, certainly not >130 BB's effective in a single raised pot.

I don't really see a reason to continue here. J9s may raise, eliminating the chance of recognizing any equity u may have. Your hand blocks OESD and ofc 97. Big hands like sets/2-pr/JJ+ will flat ip. I'd just give up ... C/F.

Sets in particular want to check here. This is partly because most of our range is forced to check, partly bc it is the easiest way to bloat a pot, partly bc by the river the texture may grow pretty poor, partly bc their cold callimg ranges smash this texture and will likely bet, etc.

Alot of people bomb JT9 with JJ...but x/r A72r with 77. Thats backwards.

I agree x/r A72r with 77 is not optimal. But I do think there is merit to betting JJ on JT9...perhaps not bomb, but lead smallish. Really depends on stacks and V's I guess but seems like a check with JJ on that flop that gets checked through is not at all good for Hero.

All I was thinking at the time was: 1. they don't have T8s, 86s, 97s J9s, which is 10 combos & I'm still ahead of 4 of them [J9s] which has 6 outs. So, no more than 50% weight would be 5 combos, only because I like to discount my hand strength. Otherwise it would be 3-4 combos.

2. 9 combos of sets is a definite possibility.

Avaritia says post is a lot of words, but I wanted to give you an idea of the dynamic of the hand as well as I could.

gobbledygeek wanted to limp pre, but I just can't bring myself to do it 1st in with any hand I play for obvious reasons.


OTTH:
Hero: $415 [they both cover with ~$450 & LJ $480] opens [8 handed] for $15 with 77 & gets called by V1 & V2. V1 is Button +4 & V2 is the Low-jack.

Flop: $42 [raked] T86

I decide to check because JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s & the 9 combos of sets are ahead of me, PLUS I can't improve vs. the 3 T9s & have 1 out vs 87s.

V1 checks & then V2 bets $13. This is a small bet that could be one looking for value or he's thinking we're not interested in challenging for the pot. He could easily be putting me on 2 suited Broadway cards & V1 on 65s, 54s, 76s or a small pair that missed.

I considered a c/r due to the small size & quickly discarded the thought, even though a c/r would be in order if I had a set. However, sets are hard to come by & if he does have a hand I discounted he would be ahead the bulk of the time, only beating J9s, 76s & 65s.

I find it hard to muck for this price. No read on whether V1 is interested in calling. Thoughts?

I was in the bet the flop camp. Now, I probably just fold. We really only want to see a 9 on the turn. Even a 7 is not perfect. They'll think you had AK.

And obvious reasons are?

There's a bunch of reasons why open limping is perfectly fine:

- a lot of the value in 77 comes in flopping a set; putting in more money before we flop one is meh
- since a lot of the value in 77 comes in flopping a set, we actually don't want anyone to fold preflop; ideally, all 10 of us would see a flop; raising preflop to get a fish to fold a hand that would have flopped TP where he would have lost some decent money postflop is a disaster
- getting 3bet is a disaster (we'll have to fold preflop, forfeiting our equity and some money)
- here we ended up OOP to the two best players at the table; in general, would we rather be in this spot for cheap in a limped pot (small pot, whatever, if we make a postflop mistake it's *meaningless*) or for more expensive in a big pot (where mistakes now actually mean something); along the same lines, we're going to end up OOP almost always since we're in EP, so would we rather be in a big pot when we're OOP or a small pot; keep in mind that this hand is mostly always going to flop horrendous
- and just as there will be meta reasons for opening hands (that perhaps shouldn't be opened in order to disguise when we open with a big hand), there are also meta reasons for limping (to disguise big hands that we limp to reraise with)
- at least if we were in position there would be more argument for raising since (a) we'll be in position postflop and (b) we'll have a clue who is interested in the pot and who / how many we'll be up against; we don't have any of those advantages being in EP

That's not to say that there aren't reasons for raising preflop either. But at the very least, it isn't "obvious" that one play is miles better than the other.

Gopenlimpingisfine,imoG

As played, kinda tricky spot, imo. Looks like we have a whiffed AK or whatever, so if we call we can probably expect to see a bet on the turn a decent amount of the time (and not always by a better hand); if we're going to fold a lot to the turn bet, then we might as well fold now. We might have 6 outs at this point and are getting a good price to see those outs, but all of the outs have poor IO (putting 4-to-a-straight on board that I doubt a good player is going to lose much money on) and may have terrible RIO (when someone makes better). Plus we still do have another guy behind us to react.

I probably fold. But I fold a lot, and perhaps too much (although maybe not?).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fold. Find a runout other than 77 where you’re confidently putting money in the pot. I also didn’t see you account for QJ in ranges, prob should.

Yeah I think fold is probably the best option all things considered. Kinda sucks but you won't be able to extract much if a 9 does fall and you have no nut outs.

Since we didn't bet flop, just fold now and pretend this hand never happened.

These are good players, so they'll keep ramping up the aggression on further streets. Even though you're getting good odds to keep setmining on the turn, it makes the board too wet and we won't feel comfortable unless river pairs up (and your V will definitely size turn such that we won't get odds to pair up)

Are you really gonna give us 1 half-action every 24 hours? You said yourself it's not a very interesting hand. No need to stretch it out over a week.