I know win rates in live poker aren't usually measured in bb/100 because counting hands doesn't make sense. They're usually measured in $/h but surely there's no reason we can't convert $ to bb and h to #hands to compare it with online?
This might sound stupid but bear with me for a second. Let's assume it takes us 4h on average to play 100 hands (which is realistic I believe). Of course we could have played way more hands online in 4h playing just 4 tables. So considering this and the usually huge live rake to make it worth our while playing live we'd have to be crushing the game at the equivalent of like 50bb/100 . 13bb/100 is needed in my local 2/5NL game just to break even...
I know online is way way tougher and 3bb/100 is more than great at 500NL, but is live really so soft that you can get 50bb/100?
It's still the same game, right? Would the difference really be this drastic due to field of players?
I'd appreciate if someone could help me understand this.

My local card room runs live 1/2 no limit, ten handed, five dollar rake plus one for the bad beat. They usually run one sometimes two tables. Waiting lists are rare and never get more than three names or so. Many players buy in for less than the max and play like they want to kill time while losing the minimum. They close at midnight or 1am

The casino 100 miles away has 1/2 no limit, same rake but they run 25 to 40 tables, always full, waiting lists ready to fill seats, and players bring more money and a willingness to gamble. Free drinks, 24 hours a day, better trained dealers with auto shufflers.

One of those games is beatable for as much as $20-30 per hour I think. The other is Un friggen beatable

not even worth trolling, in b4 lock OH HAI GARICK

First of all, its more or less widely accepted that you get about 30 hands per hour playing live. Ive actually counted before and I believe its closer to 35-40 if the dealers are decent and there isnt big pot after big pot which is normally the case with lots of limping in live games.

Its also widely accepted here that 10BB/hr is crushing the game so 10BB/35 = about 28.5BB/100 is crushing. Yes, that's possible because the games are that much softer.
There are many reasons
1) People get bored and play way too many hands.
2) Nobody has a HUD to tell them who is playing how many hands or how often they are raising. You need to use your brain to get reads.
3) There is no "bet pot" button. A lot of peoples bet sizing is terrible

There are many other reasons.

How is 13BB/100 needed to break even at your casino? The win rate already includes the rake.

dude what?

Thanks for the reply. Yeah they charge an hourly rate, regardless of how many pots of different sizes you win.

There's a thread for this, beware though you'll need a healthy regimen of antivirals after reading....

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...nances-771192/

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OOP, please post in the official winrates thread. Link is in the stickies.