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Old 06-18-2021, 06:46 PM   #1
Twentythrees
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From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!

Hello Fellas, long time no seen. I havent been here in a long time, but now i need your help again. Before Covid i was playing a lot of 100BB live poker at the casino averaging after 500h 7bb/hour at and 5bb/hour and 2/4 playing a typical abc tag style. So far so good. Covid kicked in and all the action shutted down so i started to playing zoom 10 on pokerstars and started to study a lot with solvers and gto. I have learnt a lot of new concepts like light 3 betting, range cbetting and barreling combos. To be honest i dont like online poker at all, I wanted just to improve my game, in the range of 4 months i played like a lol sample of 50k hands being about breakeven or sightly winning with rb, but this was was fine for me because i didnt care at all about the money and just wanted to learn more theory for he future when i can finally battle against the good regs at my casino that have always given me trouble.

Casino Poker has not reopened yet, but since 2 months im getting invited in a super juicy game that plays very deep with very bad players. This is great, and im all on playing live again, but i have to say im adjusting kinda bad to this type of game that is just a different animal to the standard online 6 max cashgames.



I will try to describe the game:



Ten Handed, Average stack size is about 200 bb, there are 1/2 weak tight player who buy in for 100 bb playing a nitty style and a lot of big loose passive whales who play for like 300 bb or more. Preflop raises are always 4-8 BB, and getting called very often from multiple people (3-4 at least). Post flop the people are very loose passive or bet incorrect sizes, like way too much with strong but vulnerable hands or way too little with draws or weak hands, people are peeling with all kind of dumb **** like bottom pair, overcards and stuff like that. Very very low fold equity at all. Its not uncommon for some people to cold calling 3 bets oop like its nothing with hands like A4s and then peeling flop when they hit their 4. K6o is a good hand to call a 6x open oop from the small blind. That kind of game you are all dreaming of lol.



And still the game is so juicy, im grinding it now for the last 2 months for 70 h total, and im down like 3 buy ins. I know lol sample you would say. And you are right. But im trying to be as sincere as i can when i tell you that a part of this is because being super card dead and whiffling a crazy amount of flops or being sucked out in a couple of big pots/not winning any flip at all, but the other part ist that im under entitlement tilt the Last Couplet of Sessions, after i have seen so many bad plays and bad holdings winning crazy pots and im Trying to Bluff when i should Not and not adjusting at all to the game where i have a lot of online fundamental in my blood that needs to go away to be able to maximize my ev. Cumulative tilt is a very real thing btw.



Thats why im here. I needs to adjust to these kind of mega loose passive games and extract the max out of it. As a warmup i have already red again all the stickies in this the Sub forum but i need to get more.
I will post a couple of spots where i have the most trouble on what the best action should be. I hope you can give me a good adivce on how to adjust properly.



Spot 1: You are EP (UTG1-3) with a 99+;AJs;KQs. You can raise 4 BB, You can raise 8bb, you are probably going to get 4 people on the flop anyway. Which size do you choose? Table is very passive, a limp is propblaby going to get limped around half the times. Limp reraise is not appelaing for me with this level of passivness. Maybe if i raise a disgusting amount like 10 BB+ i will get 1 call or no action at all wich is often the case because of my tight image (i am playing against the same people every time). Which amount do you choose and why?



Spot 2:

EP again, this time with speculative hands like suited broadways, suited connectors or low pocket pairs? Pot sweetener raise for like 3 BB? Limping and folding to a raise? Limping and calling when you know the price is good and its going multiway anyway and trying to navigate Post flop better than your opponent? Playing tight OOP and folding all this kind of **** being so deep?



Spot 3:



Being in LP, a couple of limper in front of me that are sticky and will pay 10 BB to see a flop. How should my raising range looks like? Wich amount should i raise? Should i have an overlimping range here?



Spot 4: Being in LP again, a couple of limper in front of me and a splashy loose player makes a little raise for like 3-5 BB, i have a speculative hands like QTs,A5s,78s. In this case i would try to 3 bet isolate a lot, but the last times i tried i founded that is not uncommon that my iso 3bet to 12-15 BB gets cold called from the blinds or from the limper and now im playing A very bloated pot against more opponents with a decent but not very good holding. Its better in this case to just call preflop and play multiway with the hand and try to maximize with the position advantage we have?

I feel i cant light 3 bet at all in this game, cause my fold equity is close to zero. Should i just play a lot of cheap pot in position with speculative holding and trying to play multi way better postflop than them? I feel pretty lost on this one.



Spot5: We are in the blinds, there is a 5BB raise and a couple of caller. How looks your Flatting range here on the BB? Do you have a flatting range in the Sb at all?



Spot 6: You have a decent holding like AJo/AQo/KJs in MP and there is a raise for 4 BB coming from the UTG player that have a good but not too nitty of range (Suited broadways, all pocket pair, some suited connector). Do you try to 3 bet isolate it? Calls feels so bad cause the whole table will call and you are playing multiway without position/ initiative and just have to hit.



Spot 7: This is not a preflop spot at all, but when you have little fold equity post flop isnt it just better to bet fat for value or medium for thin value and just giving up when you havent hitted anything? Sometimes maybe you can barreling with good equity on a semibluff but thats it. I can tell you i have burned a lot of money with squeezing Aq/Ajs holding pre and then trying to cbetting good flops 3 way only to get called again and having to giving up. Maybe its just weak poker i dont know, but the people just cant fold when they hit middle pair.



Please assume all spots are played very deep (like 250BB +) and Villains are always very loose passive and sticky.

I apologize for my bad english. I know these are very basic questions, but i think i need to refresh my mind and adapt again to this kind of games. A little brainstorming cant be bad, and maybe this thread could be useful for someone else too. I also want to get better at deep stack play, which i have never played before.



@Petrucci, I hope you are doing well and come around for little strat talk From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:42 PM   #2
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Re: From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!

I'm sorry luck hasn't been with you since your return.

Your post is very long and giving you a detailed response to all your questions would require a major essay for a response. If you instead post some individual hands that fit some of the areas you are questioning I and I'm sure others would be happy to give our opinions.

GL!
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:41 AM   #3
spikeraw22
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Re: From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!

I started reading with good intentions and was skimming by the end. Sorry. You’re likely beating the game but not crushing it. When this is the case losing streaks happen more often and live poker can take a long time to bear that out.

Be patient. Learn more. Online poker is a little different but good poker wins everywhere. Play OOP less. Look for fat value spots and try to eliminate some of the other stuff while you’re learning. Eventually, what you consider fat value will grow. I do stuff now that I would never have considered when I was getting started and it’s the most obvious thing to me now. Eventually you realize that everybody has a fold button if you know how to find it. But I’d only worry about getting them to call when you want for now. That’s their favorite thing to do anyway.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:15 AM   #4
nutsornot
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Re: From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!

I'll take a stab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentythrees View Post
Hello Fellas, long time no seen. I haven´t been here in a long time, but now i need your help again. Before Covid i was playing a lot of 100BB live poker at the casino averaging after 500h 7bb/hour at ½ and 5bb/hour and 2/4 playing a typical abc tag style. So far so good. Covid kicked in and all the action shutted down so i started to playing zoom 10 on pokerstars and started to study a lot with solvers and gto. I have learnt a lot of new concepts like light 3 betting, range cbetting and barreling combos. To be honest i don´t like online poker at all, I wanted just to improve my game, in the range of 4 months i played like a lol sample of 50k hands being about breakeven or sightly winning with rb, but this was was fine for me because i didn´t care at all about the money and just wanted to learn more theory for he future when i can finally battle against the good regs at my casino that have always given me trouble.

Casino Poker has not reopened yet, but since 2 months i´m getting invited in a super juicy ½ game that plays very deep with very bad players. This is great, and i´m all on playing live again, but i have to say i´m adjusting kinda bad to this type of game that is just a different animal to the standard online 6 max cashgames.



I will try to describe the game:



Ten Handed, Average stack size is about 200 bb, there are 1/2 weak tight player who buy in for 100 bb playing a nitty style and a lot of big loose passive whales who play for like 300 bb or more. Preflop raises are always 4-8 BB, and getting called very often from multiple people (3-4 at least). Post flop the people are very loose passive or bet incorrect sizes, like way too much with strong but vulnerable hands or way too little with draws or weak hands, people are peeling with all kind of dumb **** like bottom pair, overcards and stuff like that. Very very low fold equity at all. It´s not uncommon for some people to cold calling 3 bets oop like it´s nothing with hands like A4s and then peeling flop when they hit their 4. K6o is a good hand to call a 6x open oop from the small blind. That kind of game you are all dreaming of lol.



And still the game is so juicy, i´m grinding it now for the last 2 months for 70 h total, and i´m down like 3 buy ins. I know lol sample you would say. And you are right. But i´m trying to be as sincere as i can when i tell you that a part of this is because being super card dead and whiffling a crazy amount of flops or being sucked out in a couple of big pots/not winning any flip at all, but the other part ist that i´m under entitlement tilt the Last Couplet of Sessions, after i have seen so many bad plays and bad holdings winning crazy pots and i´m Trying to Bluff when i should Not and not adjusting at all to the game where i have a lot of online fundamental in my blood that needs to go away to be able to maximize my ev. Cumulative tilt is a very real thing btw.



That´s why i´m here. I needs to adjust to these kind of mega loose passive games and extract the max out of it. As a warmup i have already red again all the stickies in this the Sub forum but i need to get more.
I will post a couple of spots where i have the most trouble on what the best action should be. I hope you can give me a good adivce on how to adjust properly.



Spot 1: You are EP (UTG1-3) with a 99+;AJs;KQs. You can raise 4 BB, You can raise 8bb, you are probably going to get 4 people on the flop anyway. Which size do you choose? Table is very passive, a limp is propblaby going to get limped around half the times. Limp reraise is not appelaing for me with this level of passivness. Maybe if i raise a disgusting amount like 10 BB+ i will get 1 call or no action at all wich is often the case because of my tight image (i am playing against the same people every time). Which amount do you choose and why?

It sounds like you have found the pain threshold pre flop, go $18 or $20 pre and evaluate your results after a couple sessions and make adjustments


Spot 2:

EP again, this time with speculative hands like suited broadways, suited connectors or low pocket pairs? Pot sweetener raise for like 3 BB? Limping and folding to a raise? Limping and calling when you know the price is good and it´s going multiway anyway and trying to navigate Post flop better than your opponent? Playing tight OOP and folding all this kind of **** being so deep?

Don't change your sizing pre based off your hand strength, get some pre flop charts and study them. Open a tight range from up front. If this is really such a passive game that you can limp in with speculative hands 200bb+ deep with out people squeezing pre and no body folds post flop with any piece then you can probably justify limping some small pairs and suited connectors and playing for max value when you hit


Spot 3:



Being in LP, a couple of limper in front of me that are sticky and will pay 10 BB to see a flop. How should my raising range looks like? Wich amount should i raise? Should i have an overlimping range here?

Study some pre-flop charts, you want to slim down your iso raising range for your position the more limpers are in there, you also need to be adding a set amount per limp on top of your standard open raise size when isoing. You can definitely have an over limping range especially once there is 3+ limps and the remaining players aren't prone to squeezing

Spot 4: Being in LP again, a couple of limper in front of me and a splashy loose player makes a little raise for like 3-5 BB, i have a speculative hands like QTs,A5s,78s. In this case i would try to 3 bet isolate a lot, but the last times i tried i founded that is not uncommon that my iso 3bet to 12-15 BB gets cold called from the blinds or from the limper and now i´m playing A very bloated pot against more opponents with a decent but not very good holding. It´s better in this case to just call preflop and play multiway with the hand and try to maximize with the position advantage we have?

I feel i can´t light 3 bet at all in this game, cause my fold equity is close to zero. Should i just play a lot of cheap pot in position with speculative holding and trying to play multi way better postflop than them? I feel pretty lost on this one.

Play your hands for max value, 3b for value only, get the junk out for this game. If you have the odds pre and the stacks are deep enough you can play these speculative hands in position as a call if one of the limpers isn't a habitual limp re-raiser.

Spot5: We are in the blinds, there is a 5BB raise and a couple of caller. How looks your Flatting range here on the BB? Do you have a flatting range in the Sb at all?

Get some pre flop charts and study them, in this game specifically you can probably get away with some flats in the SB

Spot 6: You have a decent holding like AJo/AQo/KJs in MP and there is a raise for 4 BB coming from the UTG player that have a good but not too nitty of range (Suited broadways, all pocket pair, some suited connector). Do you try to 3 bet isolate it? Calls feels so bad cause the whole table will call and you are playing multiway without position/ initiative and just have to hit.

Those hands aren't all that great vs a normal utg raising range, you can fold AJo, mix in some 3!s with AQo and the best suited broadways but again, get some pre-flop charts, study them and think carefully about how to make adjustments for your specific game

Spot 7: This is not a preflop spot at all, but when you have little fold equity post flop isn´t it just better to bet fat for value or medium for thin value and just giving up when you haven´t hitted anything? Sometimes maybe you can barreling with good equity on a semibluff but that´s it. I can tell you i have burned a lot of money with squeezing Aq/Ajs holding pre and then trying to cbetting good flops 3 way only to get called again and having to giving up. Maybe it´s just weak poker i don´t know, but the people just can´t fold when they hit middle pair.

It sounds like your really dont have any fold equity in this game, don't bluff, its boring but play your made hands for fat value and due some studying specifically on c-bet bluffing (which you should almost never be trying oop vs multiple limp callers on "good" boards)

Please assume all spots are played very deep (like 250BB +) and Villains are always very loose passive and sticky.

I apologize for my bad english. I know these are very basic questions, but i think i need to refresh my mind and adapt again to this kind of games. A little brainstorming can´t be bad, and maybe this thread could be useful for someone else too. I also want to get better at deep stack play, which i have never played before.



@Petrucci, I hope you are doing well and come around for little strat talk From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!
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Old 06-21-2021, 03:43 PM   #5
Twentythrees
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Re: From Live to Online and back: Help me adjusting again!

Thanks all for responding so far. The More i Read the opening the More i think this was Like a very Big and confusing Post, Not easy to get some Help on that. I think i wrote it when i still was tilting lol. Now i'm cooled Off and i will Go to the next Game With a Better plan and mindset. I will Post More individual Hands in the Future, and try to contribute myself to Other discussions aswell.
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