It was a weird table. I had stations to my immediate left and right. The guy to my left would go from calling 3 (having $3 in his hand) to snap calling for 25-40. Also notable there were 3 players who came for the series at the table.

I start hand with about 850ish? Effective in hand is right around 600.

I get aces UTG+2. I limp. 4 or 5 callers up to her in the B.B.

BB raises to 28.

I re-pop it to 88 because of the station to my left with AcAs.

Folds to BB.

BB semi tank calls.

Flop is K52 all diamonds.

BB checks to me.

I bet 115.

BB almost insta calls.

Turn is 5c - making board K52ddd5c. BB semi tank jams. What’s your move here?


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Limp/reraise would be standard for me here preflop.

With $600 stacks and stations possibly calling lol sizes, I go around $100ish in order to offer poorer ~setmining odds. Our sizing offered ~10:1 which ain't horrible but I like offering worse cuz I'm conservative like that.

SPR is like 2.5. Even though I'm not super pumped about this flop I still feel committed, especially since Kx or any big pair + diamond will likely consider themselves committed for stacks. With this smallish SPR and being committed, I think we could consider just shoving the flop. Otherwise I'd PSB it to setup a simplistic turn shove.

I'm snapping the turn and feeling fairly good about things (turn is great as the draws busted, it's highly unlikely the opponent has 5x, and if they somehow outflopped we've now picked up outs). ETA: I guess I'm never totally thrilled when someone shoves $400 in a typical 1/3 NL game, but I don't think we can do anything else at this point given we only have a PSB left and there are many worse hands she can be doing this with. Basically, our preflop play (which I pretty much like) took all the difficult decisions out-of-play, so just follow thru with commitment as uncomfortable that may feel for this amount of $$$.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Well we aren't folding so...

We’re beating AdKx and random spazz. KxQd should never be showing up here but we can include that as random spazz I guess.

We’re losing to AQdd/AJdd, KK and any random diamond SCs otherwise.

It’s a PSB and we only have 3 outs vs. AQdd and AJdd and 4 outs vs other flushes. 2 vs KK. I don’t follow how we’re never folding here. There’s plenty of players I’d fold to here on a 1/2 table.

Including those hands we’re ahead of, which still have decent equity against us, do we have 35% equity?

Or did I read something wrong somewhere?

I’m eliminating AQdd and less dd hands due to these factors:

Opp was very solid. Had just made 3 FTs at the GCPC

I put in a pretty sizable limp/3b

AKdd is blocked with Kd on board.

Highly doubt opp would even initially raise from bb with 55 and 22.

Opp likely either 4b calls/folds KK to a 5b jam fort 200 bigs effective.

Left me with only AdKx which is what opp had.

Another question I have about this hand is I think opp misplayed it. I don’t include sets because what set calls flop then jams turn with decent fold equity vs hands it’s beating? If opp had x/r jammed flop I might include sets but with board texture, K52 it’s hard to include any set except KKK which as stated, I feel unlikely.




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Plenty of quality players could defend vs. the 3b OOP with AQs. Every l/rr isn't necessarily KK+/AK, even though that's what all the threads here seem to be since people are more likely to post here when they lose rather than when they win, so V can still defend a respectable range including AQs. As far as other diamond hands, you could argue that some of those hands could be better to defend here vs. a l/rr. By saying he's not defending AQs or other diamond hands, you're saying he only defends, what, JJ+ and AK? I doubt that.

Sure, if you're going to discount all those other hands, then this is obviously a call. I just don't see how you can discount them all.

Also, as I mentioned, I'm not always folding this by any means. I was just saying there's plenty of players I could fold here to. Saying we're never folding just seems wrong. I'm probably calling about 2/3 of the time here.

We have to put our V on AdKx (which he had here), an underpair with a diamond into a semi-bluff, or random, non-sensical spazz to call here in the exploitable sense. If your opponent would never jam here with those hands, then that's when I call. I may also call vs. some unknowns based on stereotyping. Our outs are severely limited without holding the Ad when we're wrong.

As far as V misplaying the hand, he blocks AA and KK, you have no other sets here, and only he can have the nut flush. You really don't ever have diamonds here at all, honestly. It could be some weird merge of value and bluffs where he knows he's never folding to your turn psb jam if he checks, and you might fold AK/AA or call with QdQx or JdJx. I don't think his line is terrible if he's sure you're going to jam the turn. But yeah, I'd prefer checking the turn if I'm V and happily going to showdown vs. QQ or JJ since I'm OOP.

I never said it was a never fold. I ranked for close to 5 minutes before I called. I’m simply asking for other’s opinions.

I completely respect and appreciate your feedback and input.

I did discount those hands (perhaps wrongly?) just couldn’t put opp on putting me on anything less than QQ playing it this way. We had been playing together for the entire session and neither of us had made any gross missteps. Just curious as to how playing JTs OOP for 15% of your stack is EVER a good idea?


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With people being so unbalanced on their limp/rr in poker nowadays at lower stakes, where a lot of players only do it with KK+ and AK, then you could argue that there's almost no hands for you to defend vs. a limp/rr.

The challenge is identifying whether your opponent has a wider limp/rr range than KK+/AK. If your opponent thought you do, then there's worse hands to defend with than JTs since there's limited RIO opportunities (even a wider limp/rr range would likely never include ATs/AJs, and he only has to worry about JJ/TT which he blocks, so he still has decent equity vs. a wider limp/rr range).

On a sidenote: I don't think limp/rr is going to stick around much longer in cash games unless people start to balance it better. It's just too easy to find a fold vs. most players nowadays. Even the below average rec players are starting to figure it out from what I've seen.

Scenarios where you should fold an overpair in an SPR of 3 HU are pretty rare. This isnt one of them

Snap

Depending on how much dead money relative to stacks is already in the pot preflop, plus how capable our opponents are relative to us postflop, taking down pots untaxed preflop isn't necessarily a horrible thing.

GimoG

So he had JTsuited flush?

I was thinking he'd show you KK full.

It’s better to go to a flop 5-handed in a bloated pot with KK/AA than it is for everyone to fold preflop. It’s always a horrible thing when you don’t see a flop with KK+.

To prove a blanket statement wrong, all you have to do is show one obvious counter-exception.

We're at a 10 handed table and everyone has $100 stacks. We're in the BB. UTG opens to $99, and is called by everyone. We wake up with AA in the BB and shove for $1 more. We wanna see a flop?

Obvious this is the lol unrealistic counterexample that proves the blanket statement wrong, but you can start adding in some fairly reasonable examples that also begin to question it as well.

This is a very realistic example from my typical 1/3 NL table. Some small stacks, some deeper ones. We limp a monster. A $20 raise, gets called in 3 spots, no one is completely horrendous postflop. So $80+ in the pot plus keep in mind pots taken down preflop aren't taxed (which would be $9 at my table if the winner throws in a $1 tip). I'm not convinced the EV of seeing a flop here is > $80, but I could be wrong (show your math if you're convinced otherwise, imo).

GcluelessNLnoobG

No. After walking down the hand mentally and know how villain has played I could only put them on a range of AdKx- QdQx. The villain is a very accomplished player and I eliminated KK from their range because I feel they would have either 4b folded or 4b jammed KK.

I tank for a few minutes and call. AdKx. River was 8h. Just was wondering if others would come up with the same deduction as I did. Essentially whether or not my read was realistic or just optimistic.


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