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Old 11-03-2013, 02:33 AM   #1
In The Tank
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 194
Live 2/5NL, KK pre-flop decision, 3 way

Looking for some advice on the best pre-flop play, and our plan for the flop (if applicable). Relevant players are:

Hero: Won some nice pots in the last hour to build a $1500 stack; not shown any bluffs, not getting out of line.
V1: Old man on my left. 3bet one other pot during the day and showed QQ when he 3 bet. Has not 3bet any other times.
V2: 30s woman, I have played with a few times, she doesn't really get out of line too much, but can overplay hands sometimes, although I have not seen anything out of line today.

We have been playing together for about 4 hours.

Hero (UTG) $1500: raises to $20 with KhKd (this is my standard raise in this game)
V1 (UTG+1) $500: 3bets to $60
Folds to V2 (SB) $900: 4bets to $200


Will post more info later if warranted.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:50 AM   #2
Jay S
old hand
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Balancing by misreading my hand
Posts: 1,446
Re: Live 2/5NL, KK pre-flop decision, 3 way

Unless you have some particular reason to think V2 would ever do this light, seems like a pretty standard "fold KK pf" spot. Pretty unlikely she's doing this for value with worse after a UTG raise & UTG+1 3bet from two non-crazy players, unless your read on her overplaying hands is from situations similar to this one. In addition, given description of V1 and the two K blockers in your hand, AA is not a trivial proportion of his range, so even when V2 is spazzing with worse, you're still sometimes in trouble.

IF you're confident V2 does this with some weaker hands, I don't hate flatting with intent to gii on most flops. 5-betting just gives everything you beat a chance to fold.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:13 AM   #3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,010
Re: Live 2/5NL, KK pre-flop decision, 3 way

it's a pretty disgusting spot to be in given player descriptions. You have history with these guys so how often are they this aggro with ak preflop in this spot. If I have seen them not 3bet. I think I would probably flat in the game b/c I can't fold kk preflop. If she is sometimes overvaluing her hands here that's fine. I/m actually abit more concerned about the positioning and stacksizes because you can't even close the action. old man has 500 if you call the 200 4bet from the woman who you could be ahead of, you can't close the action and old man will be forced into a shove/fold spot. if he shoves for 300 more, now the action is back open again to the lady. So I think I would flat with the intention of folding if such action transpires. if he shoves and she folds you will call off the extra 300. If he folds, now you have position on the lady "who sometimes overvalues hands" going to the flop.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:46 AM   #4
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Water
Posts: 1,279
Re: Live 2/5NL, KK pre-flop decision, 3 way

I'd fold. This is the one time I will consider folding KK PF: when someone cold 4bets.

If it's just you and one villain, and you're clicking it back against each other, then the 4bet is less scary (could be AK, QQ, etc).

But when this lady cold 4bets this spot, it's gotta be KK+. We're losing to a KK+ range, so we should fold.
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