This hand happened a while back, so I will give just the details that are important.

MP1 (Hero): $362
Button (Villain 1): $361
BB: (Villain 2): $245

Hero opens AA for $15.
Button calls, BB calls.
Villain 1 is extremely lose, has been running hot and cold, and has been willing to play any two cards for any raise.
Villain 2 in the BB is pretty conservative, and tends not to reraise from the blinds even with fairly strong hands (I saw him smooth call with Ks, Qs, and A-K suited in the previous session from the blinds.)

Flop:
9
6
4

Villain 2 checks from the BB. Hero bets $45. Villain 1 shoves all in from the button for $301 more, Villain 2 snap calls.

Hero?

bet more pre

I could see the first shove being air/top pair (A-9, maybe K-9). I just couldn't put a set in his range with a shove like that, although two pair (4-6, 9-6) was very possible.
The snap call kind of surprised me, but I could see that being anything from J-J through K-K, maybe A-K suited, along with the sets.
Villain 1 and Villain 2had been complaining about my big raises (my standard opening had been $15), and I could see both trying to bully me in a pot if given the chance.

Technically you should probably fold since you only have like 60 invested and there's a decent chance that a.) villain 2 has better than one pair and b.) villain 1 is probably drawing pretty live and you have no redraws.

However aces are still pretty strong on that board, and you're like always good against villain 1 so at minimum there's the side pot that you have a good chance to win. If calling with aces there against villain 2 is a mistake, I wouldn't say that its a particularly big one and could live with it if he turned over a better hand.

im not afraid of villain 1. villain 2 looks like he has a set based on your reads on him, i'd fold it. im a nit though

Villain 2 was the issue for me. I snap call Villain 1.

What are the thoughts on the opening $15? After the fact I realized that Villain 1 would likely call any raise with any two cards against me, so I should have opened higher to make the SPR more conducive to stacking off. I just feel like that at a lot of $1/2 tables, unless there are a lot of deep stacks, opening for more than $15 seems to keep anyone from calling. I wasn't that disappointed getting into a 3 way pot with these two...until the flop action.

Fold. And thx to the troll that only posts bet more pre. Must be a lol at live players thing.

Folding is best. If BB v2 has anything other than a set or 2p well played sir. Lose 60 and move on.

Unless I am going crazy, there was more in his post initially. I think he also suggested folding with a set being the likely holdings of one of them. Not why he deleted it.

Since I have had some replies, here is how the hand played out.

A conservative player clearly going for a c/r snap calls an all-in after you lead and villain 1 shoves. I fold. Perhaps he has QQ, KK but it doesn't sound like the rest of his range has a lot of TPTK or draws, mostly sets.

$15 to $25 is pretty standard around these parts of the world Let em whine.

Anyway, don't worry about the critics. Raise how much you want, you already know about SPR, so act accordingly.

As to the hand, its 50/50 call or fold based on what information you have provided. Your tight villain's range includes hands that have you "crushed" and hands you "crush".

What I tend to do in these situations is try to change the choice from a 50/50 to something that has a side to land on. The technique I use is a weighted hand range method. I group the most likely hands in a "heavy weight" group, possible/probable but not too likely hands in a "middle weight" group, and then put really unlikely but still some possibility hands into the "light weight" group.

Now that I have the villain's hand range chopped up, its easier to make a choice. You were there, you have to weight those hands... If more of the "likely to have" range you crush call, if more of the "likely to have hands" range you don't crush, fold.

That was my take on V2. I *could* see Ks with the snap, but he was cautious enough that with an overbet in front and with me leading out a pot bet, the only rational hands he could have and snap with were 4s, 6s, 9s, or the nut flush draw.

I was still adjusting to SPR live, and the table had gotten a little deeper than when I was raising $15 earlier. I have corrected that little leak (mostly).

Based on the weights I used that the time, I came up with 60 fold/40 call.

As always, I greatly appreciate the input everyone is giving, particularly for the preflop raise. I tend to be the big raiser at most of my tables, maybe because I am SPR aware, and reading the posts here have given me some more confidence in that approach at this level.

BTW, insta shoves, even into multiple players by fairly decent players in this type of situation tend to be FD's. Just saying... YMMV That might help weight your ranges in the future.

Agreed. I wouldn't rate the button as decent. Even mediocre. His chip stack fluctuated from felt to $1,000 back to felt over 8 hours or so. He just liked to play.

Nah, I meant the AKs villain (V2). That RRAI from V1 could be just about ATC, could be a FD, TP, top pair, str8 draw, but more times than not its top pair.

So just to be perfectly clear... A "decent" live NL player that has shown down fairly tight... When facing a AI from a known LAGtard, they are shipping it with a big FD (read nut or 2nd nut FD). Their thinking is that they have a very solid hand versus that LAGtard's range, and ya know what, they do. So they are pushing to ISO "their fish" and even if they get a call in a multi way pot, they are likely not in too bad of shape anyway in a raised pot.

I like V2's play in this hand, as your perceived range is not strongly weighted to AA/KK, it surely has to be any PP, AK-AT, and some SCs. You are calling with a lot of your range in his mind if you are calling at all, and folding often enough to his tight image. Keep an eye on V2, he might be better than you think.

I'm not a troll and i don't play online, and yes I did post more I was going to rec fold, you are likely up against 2pr or a set, but I was curious what others thought so i edit/deleted most of my post so as not to influence things.

I had V2 showing up with a set about half the time, and the draw/kings the other half. Factoring in that V1 would shove 2p here, I came down on the side of folding.
And I would have shipped it with AKs if I was V2.

This is an extremely obvious fold. There are not two people, both with worse than AA, quickly playing for stacks behind the preflop raiser for well over 100xBB. Think it out - what can they have that they both have worse than AA? Even if you are ahead, you're fading a combo draw, not exactly a desirable situation.

The fact that you this time happened to see Q6 and AcKc is an abberation, and you still had to fade 9 outs twice from the guy with AcKc

Without having read the outcome of the hand I feel that I might have called in OP's spot. We're not afraid of Villain 1's shove and we really beat a significant part of Villain 2's value range (the whole range of TT-KK hands which he's capable of having). But really it's just me going "I has the top overpair, pairs are real hard to make in hold 'em, I call!" in my mind.

But I think it's a pretty close decision btwn calling and folding.

EDIT: just looked at the suits of the cards and the fact that we don't have the A-clubs might weight it further towards a call if we're willing to flip with a massive combo draw of some sort.

Ugh. This one's tough.

I probably make the "good laydown" since so little was invested, and I'd rather use AA to have someone crushed. You generally don't dominate anything that's willing to go to down, so you're either even money or a huge dog. Whether you're a dog enough to overcome the pot odds, really hard to say.

It's just one pair, and a high SPR. You can let it go and feel okay about it, even if it was ahead this time. There will always be another huge pot to play.

It's generally very unlikely that someone will just call $15 preflop after a raise, but then snap decide to stick in $230 in a three-way pot with KK or QQ in a situation like this.

Thanx for blowing the spoiler 2Outs (I got all the way to ur post without knowing the outcome lol.)

If I had the Ac I make a crying call b/c I have a blocker/back door and it makes me put V2 on KK more often; without it, I fold. Also, with deeper stacks I'm advocating a larger PF raise as well.

Stopped reading at post #8 to not spoil my thoughts here.

My immediate reaction to your first post was "why didn't you raise more pf?" You said the guy would call any raise. If that's the case, I generally start raising higher and higher until I find his threshold. When you can isolate a true ATC calling station like that, you'll take racks and racks from him.

Digressing a little here, but when you find a villain like this, you can even open up your starting requirements a little to 88+ and big aces. (This isn't my idea. I read it in something Roy Cooke wrote.) You put in an insane raise to isolate him and you're almost always dominating him.

Back to the hand... My first read is that villain 1 has two pair and villain 2 is on a flush draw hoping you'll come along. I'll read the rest of the posts now.

Don't read this if you've not looked at the spoiler!

Guess I gave v1 too much credit.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you can somehow know that v1 has top pair and v2 is drawing to the nut flush, calling here is technically right considering the pot size?

I'm not saying I would have ever called. I would have grumbled and cried and folded my hand just like you did. I really think one of them has you crushed almost every time here. And even if I'm a wrong about this, add on the suckouts and I feel good about folding this hand every time. Either way, it's a thin call and you've only got $60 invested right now. Another hand, another time.

+1 to v2 being better than you think. I'd stay out of pots with that guy as much as possible. He checks the flop knowing you'll bet. He's already decided he's going to call any bet here from anyone. I really think he put you on an overpair or big ace and hoped that you'd call too to make his pot odds even more outrageously good.

Learn to love it when the table complains about your pfr sizing. They will eventually get tired of being raised out of their hands pre flop and start calling you lighter. Except for very special situations, I always raise my premium hands $15-25 or maybe a little more if there are a lot of limpers. (SoCal 1/2 or 2/3 games) They may fold the first couple of times, but if you've practiced good table selection, you're conditioning them.