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Line check T9o 2/5 Line check T9o 2/5

06-26-2014 , 04:01 AM
New table a few orbits in.

Hero (SB) - Young, probably seen as tight but a little on the aggro side. So far played one or two hands, only biggish pot played I raised and triple barreled Jd8x7dAd3d (didn't go to showdown).

V (button) - ~30 years old, darker guy, not his first poker game but only history I have is first hand he squeezed utg raise of $20 + 3 callers to $70 in BB got two callers, c-bet $85 and took it down on dry K-high board. Said he had AK. Limped in a few times as well.

Effective stacks $500

MP (station) limps, V limps on button, I call in SB w/ Td9x, BB checks.

Flop - 9x8d7d

Hero leads $15, folds to V who calls.

Turn - Ax

Check or bet?

Last edited by CRAIerrday; 06-26-2014 at 04:04 AM. Reason: Should have said T9s so I don't get flamed for calling
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 05:50 AM
I fold pre, but that's me.

I'd bet for a little protection and a little value. Plenty of worse fd's, pair+fds, pair+sds, just pairs out there. Do the math on what direct odds you have if you get raised but I don't expect a lot of flop calls to hit the A. I was also going to say I don't expect a lot of Ax hands to raise the turn if they did call the flop. But that's against a more advanced guy. He wouldn't want to get 3-bet and pushed off a hand with that much SD value. He also wouldn't want to force folds from hands he's beating, and he can disguise his Ax by flatting and getting 9x to call otr. But this guy might just think "I haz top pair, I must raise."
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 05:54 AM
Bet $25-30.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 08:08 AM
I like $25 here, no reason to inflate this pot but there are lots of worse hands that can call. You might get a better 9X that doesn't have a draw to fold, more likely you will get called by draws and worse pair+draw hands. I'm assuming over pairs and sets are unlikely as villain probably raising those pairs from the button after one limp. The only likely aces in villains range are Ad flush draws, the rest of the aces fold on the flop.

If you get raised, fold. A raise here is probably two pair or ace high diamond draw. If river is a brick, either make a smallish value bet of $50 or check/call, depending on your read of villain.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 11:14 AM
Agree with bet. Getting raised here is not that bad because this draw isnt that great. You have no implied odds and any hand that raises you would not have given you proper drawing odds had you checked. Bet for value, as you might still have the best hand and are pricing in your draw.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 11:35 AM
bet/fold 25.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 11:38 AM
I check/call flop. As played, I check/call turn.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 11:42 AM
Sucks not having reads on villain. The preflop read doesn't help too much except that he is not afraid to put money in the pot / doesn't slowplay big hands.

I don't think check/fold is an option here, and I don't like giving away betting initiative and making our draw more transparent by doing a check/call.

I would bet $25 and call a small-ish raise, and check/fold river if we don't hit our straight.

If we bet turn and he calls, I think we bet big if we hit our straight (~3/4+ pot) and small if we don't (1/4 pot). If we hit our straight, I'm bet/folding a diamond river, bet/calling a non-diamond.

If we don't hit our straight and the diamond doesn't hit, I think our 9 still has value against his range, but I would hate to check/call a big bet on the river. I think a 1/4pot blocker would do it, but interested to hear others thoughts. I have a lot of trouble playing OOP.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
I check/call flop. As played, I check/call turn.
Again, caveat that I have a lot of trouble playing OOP. I usually play my top pair/draw type hands aggressively OOP in a limped pot. I want to build the pot for the time it hits and also get value from mid/small pairs who don't believe me in the limped pot.

However I often wonder if the check/call flop line is better. I have been trying both and think it has merits (stack protection on a board where people can have ATC and call you down very light).

But I think once you've made the decision to bet flop, you have to continue on the turn... I just don't see why we would want to give up control of the bet sizes / lose fold equity.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 12:07 PM
check and always call
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian
check and always call
can somebody ban this guy? he is just posting the same thing in every strat thread.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiesel
I fold pre, but that's me.

I'd bet for a little protection and a little value. Plenty of worse fd's, pair+fds, pair+sds, just pairs out there. Do the math on what direct odds you have if you get raised but I don't expect a lot of flop calls to hit the A. I was also going to say I don't expect a lot of Ax hands to raise the turn if they did call the flop. But that's against a more advanced guy. He wouldn't want to get 3-bet and pushed off a hand with that much SD value. He also wouldn't want to force folds from hands he's beating, and he can disguise his Ax by flatting and getting 9x to call otr. But this guy might just think "I haz top pair, I must raise."
Pretty much my line of thinking. I don't think he is ever raising this turn with a naked A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
I check/call flop. As played, I check/call turn.
I bet flop because of the station in MP (i.e. he called an A96 flop with 52hh and backdoored a flush). I also wasn't sure it would get bet given most players were passive, and it's likely we have the best hand.

In a vacuum, I feel c/c otf with the station behind us is going to put us in tough spots later in the hand, and it also leaves V's range pretty wide open.

After c/c turn which rivers do you c/c and c/f?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HH2010
Sucks not having reads on villain. The preflop read doesn't help too much except that he is not afraid to put money in the pot / doesn't slowplay big hands.

I don't think check/fold is an option here, and I don't like giving away betting initiative and making our draw more transparent by doing a check/call.

I would bet $25 and call a small-ish raise, and check/fold river if we don't hit our straight.

If we bet turn and he calls, I think we bet big if we hit our straight (~3/4+ pot) and small if we don't (1/4 pot). If we hit our straight, I'm bet/folding a diamond river, bet/calling a non-diamond.

If we don't hit our straight and the diamond doesn't hit, I think our 9 still has value against his range, but I would hate to check/call a big bet on the river. I think a 1/4pot blocker would do it, but interested to hear others thoughts. I have a lot of trouble playing OOP.
He had a wedding ring, was clean shaven, wore dress shoes with jeans and a casual shirt, and when he raised preflop he pinched his thumb and index finger together. In this hand his thumb and index finger were not pinched together.

I agree with betting turn, but what size raise are you thinking of calling and how does his range compare to our hand at that point?
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 07:33 PM
Flop - 9x8d7d

Hero leads $15, folds to V who calls.

Turn - Ax

Hero bets $30, V calls.

River (~$110) - 7x

Check or bet?
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 07:46 PM
I think checking turn is best:
First off, if I'm villain, I'm thinking what hand bet the flop and can still bet the turn with ace. Only hand is a-10 or maybe a-9 , other than I can reraise you big and see how u really like ur hand. Also, by checking turn, you can induce a bet from most draws that u can call and re evaluate on river. Also by checking, u are always keeping the pot size under control, I personally like ur hand in live poker, and I would love to go to showdown for cheap on river. Remember ur hand is not too great but not too bad, and in all honesty in these situations, I like to keep the pot as small as possible and take it down against missed draws and bluff catch. Other than that, betting on turn specially once ace shows up is making the hand more complicated than it should be.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-26-2014 , 10:34 PM
Well played up to river imo.

I'm check/calling a reasonable bet here. If he's a standard 2/5 player he's not betting his 9x that beats you and he's going to bluff some of his 10x and xdxd. There's always the option to bet the river to make him fold his 910-9k. However, without any reads I like a check/call.
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06-26-2014 , 11:34 PM
River is a check/call unless you think you can fire 2/3 pot and get him off a chop.
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06-27-2014 , 01:40 AM
I probably just check/call and fold if the bets get sizeable compared to the pot on any street. In a limped pot with 3 cards in a row and a flush draw, not a spot I want to put a lot of money in and will feel lost on most turns/rivers especially if I get multiple callers.

Btw is it a leak if you always raise two pair in a spot like this (say you are in position)

Last edited by haha_TP; 06-27-2014 at 01:46 AM.
Line check T9o 2/5 Quote
06-27-2014 , 04:03 PM
Ok well I felt a lot of his range was weighted towards one pair hands very similar to mine, maybe K9/Q9 etc. So I went for a bigger bet to get him off a chop.

Board 7d8d9xAx7x (pot $110)

Hero bets $80, V tanks for 10 seconds and raises to $250.

I don't think this is a decision at all and I folded. I was more interested in v-betting the turn and bet-sizing on the river vs a c/c.
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