Villain just sat down. His first hand
9 handed
1/2 nlh
Folds around to villain utg+1 makes it 12 ( avg raise at table )
Hero next to act with 2s2d I call reasoning is we were both 150bb deep and I haven't seen any three betting since I sat down a hour ago. And most raise we're getting 3-4 callers so I was basically hoping for a set and winning a big pot or fold. Is that correct ??
Hero only caller
Flop. 2h 8h 4c
Villain bets 18$
Hero raises to 45$
Villain pushes 288$ total allin
I know we call pre to hit a set and did and I did call the allin and I'm just curious if that is a correct call ??

I'm assume it is that's why I call just kinda wanted to hear if any one though other wise.
I'm not a pro and only want ppl perspective. Berating not welcomed

You played the hand fine...if he happened to flop a set also...well that's just a cooler. Without any history with villain...you should always be calling off here.

Looks good.

Pre is fine. I'll nit pick and say it just doesn't matter what the table average raise if this is villain's first hand. He wouldn't know any better.

And yeah, you have to get it in on the flop. Only 6 combos of better sets, and his range can include 99+, draws, etc. And a lot of villains won't open raise 44 pre.

And no, I will not give your thread a B rating. Maybe an A- for effort.

This is a pretty gross spot, it really depends on villain.

If you can give villain hands like AKhh, AQhh, 99+ here, it's a snap call (obviously).

Competent players aren't shipping 150+BB with QQ here usually, which makes this super gross. There are definitely some old man coffee types who show up with {44, 88} as their range exactly.

If he looks OMC-ish, I might actually find a fold here. If he's young-ish at all, I'm probably snapping this off and hoping it's KK/AA or even AKhh.

Hand is played fine. Caution: it's kinda classless to high-five the dealer and moonwalk around the table.

Expect to find yourself up against an overpair allot. If V does turn over 88, "Dat's pokah, Baby". Reload and go back for your chips. It's a cooler.

Your reasoning for calling pre is spot on. I think the rule is you want to be able to win 20x your preflop when you setmine. When opening pre (vs calling), I like to bet a bit less (perhaps 3-4x) with baby pp's, as we miss and check/fold them a ton. Ignore those that prattle "limping is fine to setmine with baby pp's". We don't want to hit our set with a lousy 4bb's in the middle.

Lol I agree if we are against an unknown here we are calling this, but I'm not really fist pumping when I do.

Even rec players know not to shovel 150BB in with a 1 pair hand..

snap call!

expect to see a lot of overpairs, Ahxh, and the dreaded 44 & 88.

Snap it off, very few villains open raise and he has an overpair here so much more than top or middle set. Well played

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Snapping. If you aren't gonna stack off bottom set don't call pre.

I dont always raise this Flop, but with bottom set and a flush draw out there I might do it more often than not. The board really isnt that scary so you could let one more card peel. The plan certainly is to gii by River but with the pot 'so' small you need to bump it up here I on Flop I think. You will lose a lot of customers though with this line, your hand is pretty face up as overpair/set. You are IP so you know you are going to be able to bet the Turn regardless .. that is another factor in 'maybe' just calling this Flop bet.

I assume you got 'lucky' and hit the top end of his range here. It looks like an overpair or draw. Not so sure I would 3-bet shove a set here as V .. I would lose a lot of customers in my game. I 'have' to let them try and hit their draw on Turn in most cases. Got to get a good price for it and let them draw and then lead the Turn all in for max value against a wider range of V/Hero holdings.

You cant range him since he just sat down, so raise/call here on the Flop is probably the best way to go ... you are ahead of 99-AA/flush draw and crushed by 88, doubt its 44 but could be. There is really no 'flipping' holdings here ... you are either 75% or more to win or 95% to lose. GL

Nice hand, now beat him into the pot.

I expect to see an overpair here 75% of the time, 8s 15%, AKs 10%.

instacall...

Personally, if I just sat down and I had Zero reads on anybody. I might have folded pre. If my objective was to set mine, I'd probably make sure the Villian I am up against would be willing to stack off with an overpair or TPTK. I wouldn't know that if I didn't have reads established yet. I think you got lucky in that this player can't fold an overpair and he shoved.

in this situation, instacall

Grunch.

Your line and reasoning look fine to me (and I am a pro ). Now snap call. Sorry if you lost.

Why wouldn't you 3b his first open?

Err, you know we have 22 here right? Why would you 3 bet with this hand? I personally can't remember having ever 3bet 22-66 pre-flop in my life.

so you just let people sit in your games and open their first hand? seems solid to set mine vs a wide range

lol, 3 betting a large EP open while next to act because it's his first hand is lololol dumb logic, especially with 22.

pre is probably a fold, but calling is pretty whatever.

pretending to have a tough decision on the flop is a pretty big leak though, haha

so one should 3-bet with ATC against any villain who is raising their first hand? what does this accomplish

lay the hammer down early that they just can't sit down and expect to open wide without getting 3b. table dominance, ftw

So its more about ego than actual good play.

if thats what you got out of my response then I don't think there is any way to help you

Dmark, do you know about combinatorics? This is how many variations of a hand a player can have.

For example, our villain can have 6 combos of AA:

1) AA

2) AA

3) AA

4) AA

5) AA

6) AA

Ditto for 99-KK.

But 88 is rarer. The 8 on the board reduces the possible combinations of 88. Do you know how many combinations of 88 (that is, sets) he can have?

I think it's safe to assume he's not raising 44 utg+1. And people will overplay overpairs all the time, so we should probably put 99-AA in his range. But if we want to discount it (give him a little credit for being careful post flop with an overpair), we can leave out 99 and just give him TT-AA.

So dmark, how many combinations of hands do we beat (and how many beat us) if he has {88-AA}? How many if he has {88, TT-AA}?

Then you should be able to answer your question, although there are a couple details I've left out that we can proceed to next.

gl in the future of full ring nlhe.

If I 3bet someone, it's with the expectation that they will either call with a worse hand or fold a better hand. I never 3 bet to assert my dominance. As others have mentioned, ego driven actions are rarely the best actions at the poker table. With 22-66, as far as I'm concerned, I would like to see a flop as cheaply as possibly in most cases, and then likely be done with the hand if I don't flop a set. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule though... I would open raise with 22-66 if it were folded to me OTB, or I might continue post flop if the board is dry/misses my opponents range.

Seriously though... 3betting someone's open raise because it's the first time they have raised at the table and you need to show them who's boss is really bad.

sounds like you guys have the ego in that you are too caught up in playing fit or fold to consider a non-standard line that will pay dividends in future +ev. but to each their own. gl climbing out of llsnl with your passive/abc auto pilot styles