Looking for thoughts on 2 lines I took yesterday. Pittsburgh just got table games a month ago and I had been itching to get to the casino to get some live play in. I'm fairly scared money, not being properly rolled, but I don't mind getting it all in with a good hand. My friend and I had a home game fall through the night before, and decided to hit the casino in the morning for some poker. He was nervous about playing NL, and there were no FL tables running, so I was by myself at the 1/3 table. I got sat next to someone I used to work with and hadn't seen in about 5 years, so our BSing may have kept me looking fairly active at the table, even though I was a complete card-dead nit and probably played 10 hands in 3 hours, including a couple of straddles I made just to force myself into some hands.

Aside from 1 min-raiser (who was generously donating to the table), standard raise pre was 12 to 15.

Reads: I'm still not great at getting these live. Most of the hands had at least 4 players seeing a flop. And, most of the table had large stacks, ranging from 400-800, where the max buy-in was 300. It was pretty much last nights winners duking it out - I sat down arond 8:30 am. I was able to identify a couple of people whose stacks I could take (mainly players that came in after me), so at least it wasn't a case of "if you can't pick out who the fish is...". On to the hands..

I've only been seated for about 1/2 hour. A couple of hands ago, overlimped on the button with Qxs, opened for about 1/2 pot on a Q33 flop, and folded to a check-raise. The raiser showed 3-7.

Hand 1:
Villain has been fairly aggressive in his pots, and was a clear winner over night. He may have noticed that I haven't been playing a lot of hands.

Effective stacks are about 260, villain covers me.

I look down to find TT UTG, and open to 12. Folds around to the BB who pops it to 23 - I flat (someone may have called my raise and folded to his 3b - can't remember. I'm still kind of bad a live :/)

Flop (~45): K93cc

BB leads for 25, I go for my chips without much hesitation and pop it to 70. My thought here is that I probably have the worst hand, but unless he's on aces, kings, or maybe 9s (which would be a dubious 3b pre), he is not going to call. I think he can put me on AA or AK and fold anything that those beat. If he calls and bets turn, I'm out, barring a 10 (I don't think he 3bets QJ). If he calls, checks turn, and bets river, I'm probably calling a 1/2pot bet or less (actually, I'm a wuss, so I probably fold it, but I'd wish I had called.)


Hand 2:
Villain in this hand sat down around 10:30. Middle aged, kind of laggy, wearing reflective sunglasses. Hasn't had a chance to see me only playing about 5 hands in the past 2 hours, including the 1 hand that doubled me up, set vs. top 2 all-in on the turn. Villain has about 350-400, hero covers.

4 limpers to me in the CO. I pop it to 15 with 99. I caller from MP, and 2 players see a flop.

Flop (~$40): T98r

Villain leads for 25, Hero calls fairly quickly.

Turn (~$90): 2, adds a club draw

Villain leads for 50, Hero calls fairly quickly.

River (~$190): A, no flush

Villain checks, hero thinks for a moment and announces 100, sliding a stack of reds forward.



I'll post results in a day or 2.

For the second hand, the villain was either betting a ten, or a jack. The river is a good card for you (because he didn't hit a straight). But it is a bad card if the villain had JT, QT, KT because the ace scares him.

Given your image, you are probably not getting called for $100. It might be better to make a value bet.

For the first hand, I prefer to play TT like 22 from UTG. As played I also call his 3-bet, but I check/fold the flop.

Don't infer too much (weakness?) from the 1/2 PSB OTF. Live players don't know much about bet-sizing post flop.

Another thing: What makes $1-3 a good game is also what makes it a boring game. Frequently you will see villains not fold to your raise OTF with QQ there.

Hand 1:

In my experience I really hate calling 3bets with mid pairs (77-TT/JJ) it puts you in hard spots. In this hand since villain is BB and his 3bet is ******edly small its an easy call pre-flop I think. One question you should ask yourself is how wide is his 3betting range:
is it {QQ+,AK}, {QQ+}, {KK+}, or is it {99+, AK, AQ, + random crap}.

By raising TT on this flop you are turning your hand into a bluff (I hope you see why) and are representing a pretty narrow range {99, 33, maybe flush+strait combo draws}. AK is no longer in your range since you would gladly flat with AK instead raising there.

I think I would much rather call the 25 on the flop and re-eval on the turn. You also have much more options - 1) you can bluff a 3rd club, 2) you can raise turn which will be a more believable that you have a set, or 3) if checked to on the turn you can barrel villain off JJ/QQ (since these may be pretty likely holdings, or 4) if checked to you can check back and actually get a cheap showdown with you hand that does have showdown value...



EDIT:

Oh and by the way, I don't think your flop raise qualifies as a semi-bluff (not even close). What are you semi-bluffing? your 2-outer set draw .

After I posted, I realized that I should have left the word "semi" out of the title. I am definitely turning my hand into a bluff with the raise, but I just really don't see how I am doing anything other than drawing to a 2 outer after his near-minraise and flop donk. I wish I could remember if there were callers of my open raise before his raise pre, because that might affect the range we can give him. As it is, I think we're looking at AQ+, TT+. Maybe he's getting funky with a lower suited ace or a suited king? The only hand in his range that I beat is AQ, and I think my raise will get him to fold everything that's beating me but AA, KK, and maybe AK.

My other options are to fold or call. Folding is ok. If I call, then what? I have no idea where I stand in the hand, except that I still feel like I'm drawing to 2 outs.

You mention showdown value... I think the only showdown value my hand has is as a bluff catcher.

I dunno, sounds like a "raise for info" type of play. The thing is that villain will 3bet shove over your raise with AA/KK and will probably call down with AK. You may get AQ/JJ to fold, but QQ might also still call down (people in live poker just do that).

Thing is that other that bluffs the only real value hands that could raise that flop are 99/33. You can also be raising with some kind of monster draw like JTcc/QJcc/QTcc. Most likely you would not be raising if you yourself held AK as you would be happy to call down.

Personally I don't like lines where one tries to turn a hand with showdown value into a bluff which reps a super narrow range. It just seems like you're overplaying your hand and getting yourself into really marginal spots where you don't really have a good read on what villain holds but are trying to bluff him off a hand in a re-raised pot.

Hand 1 limp TT in EP. As played, check fold flop

Hand 2, pf rz good. On flop, raise to about 115. Pot commit yourself on good turn with 200 bet

really? You advocate a UTG preflop raising range to be what... {JJ+, AKo, AQs+}?

Hand 1 I think flatting then re evaluate and betting turn is much stronger. Vil here might hero call with qq or is leading with tp but vil will rarely lead out twice with a bluff. With your image and vils narrow range here I think the turn is where we can steal this hand and not the flop.

Hand 2 raise turn all day. Turn is blank and like someone said lots of scare cards for vil. Vil could have jj 10x a draw whatver it is if he leading out twice on a board like this he's calling a turn raise with almost his while range.

Hand 1: Call the flop. If he was that sure of his hand, I think he would have bet more then $25. I put him on JJ/QQ right here and I think we can steal this pot on the turn for sure.

Hand 2: Reraise the flop for sure. Way to many scare cards.

To those advocating betting earlier in hand 2, what mistake does that allow villain to make? His bets already price himself out of draws if he is holding a jack. Does he call with worse hands if we re-pop him on the flop or turn?

I explained why u should bet turn in my post. Basically If he's donking into on 2 streets on a board like his he has enough of it to call a bet from you. I'd rather do the turn then the flop cause I think raisig the flop polarizes our range so much vil is going to shutdown and go into calldown mode unless vil has the absolute nuts. On he turn the pot gets a bit bloated and gives the whole maybe he's bluffig thouht into vils head.

What hand does villain call a turn raise with? He has already given himself incorrect odds to draw out, even if he is on an OESFD.

Princess, you say make a value bet... I bet $100 into a $200 pot. How much would you recommend?

I would bet $65-$75. I want to get called by less: {KT, QT, JT, J9, J8, TT,JJ, QQ}. For a lot of his range, the villain will find a fold for $100 with the ace OTR.

Pick up as many BB's as you can. Even if it means making a g-bet.

I like a bet/fold around 80-90 on the river. Since its live poker I think villains will have a tough time calling 100 on the river with worse.

If you get C/Red on the river then its a fold I think, but it sucks.

Most live villains don't know about, or care about, correct odds.

Right, and he has already done the job of charging himself incorrect odds to draw out on me. I just don't see him calling a raise here with worse... A decent raise here is to at least 130 or 140. I don't think that gets called by anything I beat, except maybe 88. Or an OESD + FD. His range here is a lot wider than that, and I feel I can either get him to bet the river, or get some value if he checks it to me.

Results...

Hand 1


Hand 2

^^ this ^^

i do not agree w/ princess azula , c/f is very passive, villain makes a very weak c-bet. i call flop bet and when villain shuts down on turn and checks to me i value bet, winning the hand.

IMO he is sitting on KK. He is to stubborn to fold to the Ace. He has no idea he has been beat since the flop.

Everyone who says Raise the turn here, if indeed he does have KK he prob folds thinking u hit your "terribly raised JT straight" <-- I have seen Villains say this many of times. He may also put u on the set and muck as well. which is okay. I'd rather win a little pot then loose a big one.

without that, id say as played bet 50/75 dollars on the river... A solid/thinking/non tilt player lays down the KK here for $100.

Both of these hands were played so poorly that hero needs to re-evaluate his mindset/gameplan overall. I dont mean sort of bad, i mean real bad.

*grunch*

Hand one I'm good with.

Hand two is weak tea. Should raise that flop on a (slightly) drawy board, IMO. Play this for stacks if at all possible. If he has an overpair, satcks are likely going in on the flop. If he has TPTK, you can prob get at least as much out of him as this passive line. Only way your line is best is if he's self value-towning.