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Line check with KK facing large donk bet Line check with KK facing large donk bet

01-16-2018 , 08:55 PM
I'm a long time 2+2 lurker and really trying to make a big effort to improve my game. So going to start posting hands.

Here goes:

Table is a loose passive 2/5 game with 1k cap and the Villian is 55-65 y/o gentlemen that just moved to the table three hands before with $1500+ and from what I can tell seems to be a solid player just by his mannerisms. He was waiting for the bigger PLO game.

I'm sorry, but I don't know the proper way to post a hand.

We are 1500 effective to start the hand.

He raises to 25 UTG

I reraise to 100 UTG+1 with KsKc

He Calls, Heads up to the flop

Flop is Jc 10h 5s

He Check calls my $100 bet

Pot $400

Turn is 4c putting a two flush out. He leads for $350.

I run through the ranges and figure I'm beating exactly QQ and AQ clubs (He can't have AKcc or AJcc since they are blocked), and losing to basically everything else. I really didn't see him making that play with QQ either. basically the sizing of the bet looked to me like he was really trying to protect a big hand against straight and flush draws. Thats what my thinking was.

I figure If I call we both have 1k left, and I have to face another river bet.

It was a tough spot and just looking to see what thoughts are here.

Thanks.

Last edited by scottrist; 01-16-2018 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Forgot my stack size
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-16-2018 , 09:43 PM
Call, and call most rivers. Fold A or 9 river. Maybe call 9 if he bets small. Too many AJ, KQ, QQ hands in villains range to fold turn.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-16-2018 , 10:29 PM
Call turn and evaluate river.

Light flop bet may have seemed weak to him, so AJ/QQ might take this line oop. Not enough info to range him accurately, but if he bets most blank rivers, I'm more than likely folding.

Pre - smaller, say $80.

Flop - >1/2 PSB.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-16-2018 , 11:11 PM
That's annoying. Only his fourth hand?!

Preflop: I prefer a 3bet size of 80. No need to bloat the pot and turn our hand face up by potting it.

As played, I'm genuininely torn. I hate stacking off to an unknown for 300bb but he's representing such a narrow range of hands in only his 4th hand at the table while waiting to go and play a bigger splashier game...

The kinds of hands an unknown UTG might raise/call a potsize raise from UTG+1 include:

AA (6 combos)
KK (1 combo)
QQ (6 combos)
JJ (3 combos)
TT (3 combos)

Postflop, we only beat 6 out of 18 combos.

Meh, he could be a rich baller whale maniac but we haven't seen enough to confirm that yet so I'm going to weight him toward AA, JJ, TT.

Fold and keep an eye on him.

I would have been happy calling a bet of donk bet of 250 into 400, mainly putting him on QQ or some kind of AK bluff but the bet to 350 when a smaller bet would have done the job against AK looks too value heavy.


Last edited by Nogyong; 01-16-2018 at 11:16 PM.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-16-2018 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
Call turn and evaluate river.
This.

$75-$80 pre.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-16-2018 , 11:29 PM
Tough spot. You block some ace king combos. You're ahead of ace ten, and queens. Very borderline spot. As played, either fold turn, or plan to call off all non Broadway rivers.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 09:33 AM
Your hand is too strong to fold, it's close between calling or shoving
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 11:23 AM
I appreciate all the advice. As usual its such a close spot that almost any decision seems right. I will say having the guy so new to the table and he didn't seem the super laggy type played a lot into my decision to fold.

I asked him to tell me his hand when I left and he did...


Spoiler:
Kdjd...I puke a lil
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
That's annoying. Only his fourth hand?!

Preflop: I prefer a 3bet size of 80. No need to bloat the pot and turn our hand face up by potting it.

As played, I'm genuininely torn. I hate stacking off to an unknown for 300bb but he's representing such a narrow range of hands in only his 4th hand at the table while waiting to go and play a bigger splashier game...

The kinds of hands an unknown UTG might raise/call a potsize raise from UTG+1 include:

AA (6 combos)
KK (1 combo)
QQ (6 combos)
JJ (3 combos)
TT (3 combos)

Postflop, we only beat 6 out of 18 combos.

Meh, he could be a rich baller whale maniac but we haven't seen enough to confirm that yet so I'm going to weight him toward AA, JJ, TT.

Fold and keep an eye on him.

I would have been happy calling a bet of donk bet of 250 into 400, mainly putting him on QQ or some kind of AK bluff but the bet to 350 when a smaller bet would have done the job against AK looks too value heavy.

We think very similarly.

As others have said, I also prefer a smaller pre flop raise.

What are thoughts on my flop sizing? 100 into 200? Does that seem weakish to not go above 50%? Honestly at the time its not something I though much about, which is actually a leak of mine (acting to fast).
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 11:59 AM
I think folding KK OTT in this type situation, may very well be -Ev long-term.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrist
What are thoughts on my flop sizing? 100 into 200? Does that seem weakish to not go above 50%? Honestly at the time its not something I though much about, which is actually a leak of mine (acting to fast).
I would bet 125 on the flop which may be less likely to induce a bluff but I think the flop sizing of 100 is actually fine. At this stage we still think he's likely to be some passive old guy who won't get out of line and we're going for value from QQ (6 combos).

In 3bet pots, I think it is okay to really take your time and think about opponents ranges, pot size, what we'll do on the next street etc.

Spoiler:
Not withstanding what he told you, I'm not sure he really does do this with KJ. We already know he's a tricky player and KJ coveniently sounds like one of the hands most dominated by KsKc. I wouldn't be surprised if he put us on exactly AA/KK following the preflop action.

If I had AA/JJ/TT and if I think I'll play you again, I don't want to give you the comfort of knowing you lost the minimum.

If you watch him play for a few hours, you'll have a better idea.

Oh and there are different kind of maniacs. Some are just genuinely spewy but others pretend to be spewy with their aggression but when stacks go in against other deep stacks they always have good equity.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-17-2018 at 09:43 PM.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 10:19 PM
Well we can be absolutely sure of one thing. He did not have KJ.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-17-2018 , 10:31 PM
It was hard for me to believe too, but I told him I was on vacation (which I am in Florida) and he would never see me again. He really didn't seem to be lying and def didn't seem like a guy to just needle me. But who knows. Maybe I'll never know.

Still not sure what I would do in the same spot again.
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote
01-18-2018 , 01:17 AM
Wealthy gentleman who likes playing plo has kjss, story checks out

in op you emphasized villain looked competent but did not really focus on the fact that a competent player would be much more likely to check turn with jt or set on the turn, or even go for a cr immediately on the flop

Like I said in earlier post, kk is just too strong to ever fold - the only time you can think about folding would be vs a weak player who always has aa/2p+ in this spot
Line check with KK facing large donk bet Quote

      
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