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Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn?

10-28-2018 , 09:13 PM
No reads on villain other than he hasn't done much

I am sitting at a 500 max game currently sit on a stack of 1600ish. I have been picking my spots well, and multiple times I have taken bet-bet-shipping river lines (always being for value but I have never shown down a hand). Lately I have been card dead/tighter so even though I've been in the mix I haven't really been out of line or doing anything too crazy, especially recently.

Villain lojack (700)
Hero BTN (1600)

Folds to villain in lojack who raises to $20
Hero 3bets AQ $70
Villain calls
Heads up to the flop

Flop (140): J94
Villain checks
Hero bets $50
Villain calls

Turn ($240): 8
Villain checks
Hero ?

Whats best?
  1. Check back
  2. Bet ~100 to target AK,AQ and low pairs (55-77) that x/c flop
  3. Bet larger, 150ish-190ish

I find myself always not sure what to do in these spots. I think we have a range advantage on this board, tons more overpairs in our range and maybe even a couple of sets (probably just JJ, as I would likely flat 99, 44 most of the time pre). I can also have AJ suited here. If villain is calling with weak jacks, 97suited, T9 etc if we bet turn we could probably bomb river and put him in a really tough spot. On the other hand we could just take our boat load of equity on the turn and see a free card, but isn't AQss like the best hand to bluff with if we are ever going to be light on the turn?

Last question, if we bet this turn and get x/c'd, do we give up on unimproved brick rivers?

ty
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-28-2018 , 09:20 PM
Flop is fine, now continue barreling for around 2/3.

River this is a decent hand to triple barrel shove all-in, since we block QQ/QTs and vast majority of live regs won't defend their turn calling range with nutted hands like sets/straights, so he'll be capped to one pair hands that probably can't call off a shove. Would not bluff a board pairing river tho

Last edited by Minatorr; 10-28-2018 at 09:28 PM.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-28-2018 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Flop is fine, now continue barreling for around 2/3.
what do you do on brick rivers if checked to you?
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-28-2018 , 09:24 PM
Continue barreling and put his small pairs and Jacks to the test. ~$180 sounds around right to me.

Give up on the river unimproved.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-28-2018 , 09:39 PM
In a vacuum though/vs unknown i would give up on bricks unimproved, but if he hasn't done much im a little incline to bluff shove a good amount of rivers.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-28-2018 , 09:57 PM
I would check the turn, since this board smashes the range of someone who raised-called PF and then called a c-bet on the flop.

Even before considering the possibility of being checkraised, it just feels like betting the turn is charging ourselves to draw.

Also, I don't get the very small c-bet.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I would check the turn, since this board smashes the range of someone who raised-called PF and then called a c-bet on the flop.

Even before considering the possibility of being checkraised, it just feels like betting the turn is charging ourselves to draw.

Also, I don't get the very small c-bet.
the logic for the small c-bet is I am not sure a larger bet accomplishes much on this board texture, it's relatively rainbow, I don't think he's flatting me pre too many random broadway combos that could have a gutter/be open ended and I block some of those anyway. Additionally if need be I still have the ability to build a pot on the turn and get stacks in by the river if I want. Also smaller cbet allows for more fold equity on later streets and I get a really good price on my bluffs. I would use this sizing for most of my range in this spot, it's not like im doing this with this specific hand.

I am open to other suggestions though. If the board texture were different I might go more with a half to two thirds. but that was my logic at the time.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 03:49 AM
Flop is fine to bet most of your range for 1/3 when it's rainbow, he doesnt have too many nutted hands and he's forced to defend with a huge portion of his range, which we can target with future barrels on future streets which he may make mistakes overfolding or underfolding vs our barrels. It's a very big mistake to 1/3 this texture with a FD there though.

When you bet 1/3 he arrives ott with a very wide range and dbl barreling is very profitable/mandatory.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 03:52 AM
keep on bettin
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 10:49 AM
alright everyone, well I bet 150 on the turn and he called. River we hit the Q and he leads into me for 375. -_-

but my main question was about the turn as I go back and forth between betting twice vs. taking the free card (though I mainly barrel... I thought maybe I over barrel in these spots)

Another question, do you think we should still barrel turn if it's a non-spade brick?
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I would check the turn, since this board smashes the range of someone who raised-called PF and then called a c-bet on the flop.

Even before considering the possibility of being checkraised, it just feels like betting the turn is charging ourselves to draw.

Also, I don't get the very small c-bet.
Agree with you, however checking the turn means we are giving up our ability to successfully bluff OTR. If we're ok with doing that then that's fine.

I actually like the bet of $150 OTT, but now on OTR we must fold. I'm having trouble identifying hands we actually beat here.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exoendo
alright everyone, well I bet 150 on the turn and he called. River we hit the Q and he leads into me for 375. -_-

but my main question was about the turn as I go back and forth between betting twice vs. taking the free card (though I mainly barrel... I thought maybe I over barrel in these spots)

Another question, do you think we should still barrel turn if it's a non-spade brick?
In this case I would barrel most spades (7), a ten (3), a king (3), and an ace (3) but not a queen as that gives him an open ender or two pair a lot of the time. That is around 1/3 of the deck.

A spade that doesnt connect with the flop will be better to double barrel so this 8 is not great card as a J is almost never folding, hands like 9T, 89, JT, QJ, etc either improved or picked up a lot of equity.

River should be an easy fold except against crazies.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 12:33 PM
yes I folded river for those curious, just didn't want that to be the focus of the discussion so I sort glazed over that part.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 12:56 PM
Not always barreling non spades but can't say with limited info. Obviously barrel a spade more frequently than non.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 02:34 PM
I would check the turn.
1. this board hit V's range better than our.
2. We pick us tons of outs on the turn, and we hate getting check/jammed on the turn.
3. effect stack is not deep, we can still max our value on the river if we hit.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 02:42 PM
Some baseline questions:

1. Has V been active?
2. Is V stuck? If so, how much?
3. How long has V been at the table?
4. How active is the table?
5. V's description?

Perception of that small flop bet can vary a wide range, making it difficult to gauge V's response.

Given how you played the flop, I would just check behind and take the free card.
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote
10-29-2018 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exoendo
the logic for the small c-bet is I am not sure a larger bet accomplishes much on this board texture, it's relatively rainbow, I don't think he's flatting me pre too many random broadway combos that could have a gutter/be open ended and I block some of those anyway. Additionally if need be I still have the ability to build a pot on the turn and get stacks in by the river if I want. Also smaller cbet allows for more fold equity on later streets and I get a really good price on my bluffs. I would use this sizing for most of my range in this spot, it's not like im doing this with this specific hand.

I am open to other suggestions though. If the board texture were different I might go more with a half to two thirds. but that was my logic at the time.
How do you perceive someone who 3bet pre and followed up with a weak c-bet?

AK, smaller pair than TP, set?
Line check 2/5 3bet Pot, what should we do on this turn? Quote

      
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