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09-22-2015 , 06:41 PM
Playing at the Pala Casino this weekend for the first time on my way back to LA from SD, figured I would stop by and check it out. Only brought one buy-in with me because I wasn't planning on staying more than 4-5 hours max anyway.

V1: 50's white lady, huge whale, almost never folds pre and will call most bets if she hits the board or has a draw. Was in the game for 1k in an hour and a half, off ten $100 rebuys. Has around 250-300 at this point

V2: Asian 20something, decent, not afraid to fire barrels with air if he thinks you are weak. Has around ~300 behind

Hero: 25 year old white guy, have been pretty quite, but I went from a $200 stack to $45 in the first hour when I caught V2 in a bluff and then he hit a four card flush to get me, then spent the next couple hours running it back up to about $250-270ish and the table had mentioned a couple times about me being quietly stacking up the chips the past couple hours.

Hero wakes up to KK in the UTG+1 position, raises it to $12 (fairly standard, have made a couple different raises but most of the time $12).

HJ calls, CO(V1) calls, and button(V2) calls. Flop comes 752. I bet $20 on that flop, figuring the V1 would 90% call and one of the other two would likely call if they hit anything on this board. (NOTE: I think I should have bet more on this flop.) HJ folds, V1 indeed calls and V2 reraises to $55.

At this point I think V2 mostly likely has a flush draw, but with small possibilities of a set or A7. I had been c-betting a lot of flops so far this session and taking a surprisingly large amount of them down. I couldn't really put V1 on a hand, because she had a VPIP of literally 75%+, but I figure I'm almost certainly a favorite against her, she might have a pair and a straight draw or a pair and a flush draw or even just a pair.

Hero: ????
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09-22-2015 , 07:11 PM
Definitely raise more pre. You have at least one player who is unlikely to go away and is a huge station post, so you want to maximize value and start building the pot to get your stack in against her by the river in most runouts. Go as high as you think white lady will call.

$20 is really small on the flop with draws out there and a station in the hand. Bet close to pot. When V2 raises you I think his range is more value heavy with V1 in the hand. I'm not sure he really has flush draws in his range as he's getting good direct odds and is unlikely to get folds. His range is mostly sets, 97, overpairs and A7, and maybe some more 7x depending on how loose he is. I would flat the raise and hopefully keep the whale in. 3-betting may scare her off and narrows v2 to the top of his range which mostly beats you.

Last edited by browni3141; 09-22-2015 at 07:28 PM.
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09-22-2015 , 07:50 PM
To be honest, this is fairly prevalent in this forum to state that whatever raise size you use pre flop is 'standard' either for you or for the table and I have no idea why.
That doesn't matter. In fact, the fact that you tell me that it is standard makes me wonder if you are thinking about what you are trying to accomplish when you are raising, what other sort of dynamics there are at the table, and what a different (smaller or bigger) raise size might accomplish. It feels more like auto pilot.

Anyway, generally I'm going to raise more pre flop, esp with a stationary whale at the table. Get that money yo!
Flop bet is WAY to small. You cBet $20 into $50 on a board with a fairly large number of draw on it. Something along the lines of $35 - $50 would be better here depending what sort of sizing you have been cBetting with in the past, how often it has been getting called, and what sort of hands you have had to show down when you cBet and got called.

As played it is just really ugly. if V2 has raised post flop at all since you've been here then it becomes close to a call or even a raise. If he hasn't raised post flop once then this is likely a fold. Even if we are ahead (slightly) of the combo draw portion of his range we are behing his two pair and set portion.

But if you've seen him overplay top pair before then we can't fold. The only question is if we should be raising or flatting.
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09-22-2015 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
His range is mostly sets, 97, overpairs and A7, and maybe some more 7x depending on how loose he is.
Typo, 97 should be 75s.
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09-23-2015 , 12:58 AM
Im not mad about the PF sizing, if nobody is opening pots bigger than 12 I don't want to frighten the whale. And a 6BB open PF should make it fairly easy to stack off IF WE BET THE FLOP PROPERLY.

OTT we are in a gross spot, this is a tough board. He has lots of sets and combo draws in his range. I agree with browni that a re-raise folds out his worst hands and keeps in his best. I like a call here. Best chance of keeping in V1 as well.

On the river, I'm looking for correct implied odds to draw to a backdoor flush and folding to further aggression on basically any other cards. If turn checks through idk what to do with the river...............
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09-23-2015 , 10:16 AM
I don't mind my PF raise, because like the above poster said, don't really want to scare away the whale. The 25% of hands she did fold are because the preflop action got too crazy.

Not really sure what the hell I was thinking with my flop bet sizing, should have been way larger.

I had seen V2 reraise a couple times like this, and no one looked him up, and saw him call a fairly large bet on a non-nutted flush draw.

As played I think I should be flatting and reevaluating the turn.

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09-23-2015 , 11:15 AM
One of the things that makes this such a tough spot on the flop is we don't know if our tiny cbet sizing might have induced something from V2 ("Asian 20something, decent, not afraid to fire barrels with air if he thinks you are weak"). If I'm in his spot and the table nit bets $20 into $50 on a 752 board as the preflop raiser with a possible flush draw out there I'm not going to be thinking you have much.

IMO if we had bet $40 and gotten raised maybe we could think about folding, but with this action we have to at least call. It's still a crappy spot though because now V1 is priced in to call behind so we're going to be out of position to two people on the turn and half the deck is going to be a scare card for our hand...
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09-23-2015 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingtriangle
One of the things that makes this such a tough spot on the flop is we don't know if our tiny cbet sizing might have induced something from V2 ("Asian 20something, decent, not afraid to fire barrels with air if he thinks you are weak"). If I'm in his spot and the table nit bets $20 into $50 on a 752 board as the preflop raiser with a possible flush draw out there I'm not going to be thinking you have much.

IMO if we had bet $40 and gotten raised maybe we could think about folding, but with this action we have to at least call. It's still a crappy spot though because now V1 is priced in to call behind so we're going to be out of position to two people on the turn and half the deck is going to be a scare card for our hand...
This is almost spot on with my line of thinking after I got re-raised and realized how stupid of a flop bet I made, especially since his reraise was so small.

Last edited by Arew; 09-23-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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