Orly? Let's find some real examples real quick:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-chop-1293554/
Guy limps with 4 others. Yada yada yada, on the river there's 12bb's in the middle. Admittedly a scary board, but still, on the river he's contemplating a huge over-bet to try to steal the pot.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...y-pot-1293325/
(Straddled, so we'll say straddle=bb for convention's sake. We'll assume straddle=6). Yada yada yada, on the turn guy hits his straight...with ~5bb's in the middle. He makes a full psb, gets min-raised, and folds. He agreed with another poster the he should've just checked the turn and carried that 5bb pot to the river.

Last, how about my andecdote from earlier:
Guy limps with K9, flops a boat. Yada yada yada, at showdown he chops a ~7.5bb pot (after rake). Admittedly, I could be off on this final a bit, it's been a few years, all I remember is the the feeling of being constrained by the uber small pot, and after the chop I got a pittance back.

I'm certainly not contending that the guy in ex 1 above should go for an iso raise with QTo from MP, I'm just saying if he's tossed out 3x instead of 1x, he'd still go in multiway but the pot otf would've likely been at least twice as much, and if he'd hit a good flop his attempt to get money in the middle would've been that much easier.

So yeah, you can limp in and make nuts or near nuts hands, but imo the EV is meh at best. Especially with rake. Especially when limping absolutely widens your your starting range, and if you just sit there limping all day playing fit-or-fold, you'll bleed off chips faster than you'll drag em in. I'm reminded of this now and again when I take a stab, and I invariably thank the guy who raises and "punishes the limpers" for reminding me that limping is just bad play.

I will limp a lot of stuff from the button and the button only. Not from the cut off. Not from the sb cuz it's cheap. Limping in general is just a waste of money. For those who argue for limping all kinds of stuff, I don't think they have been able to separate out their actual results. It's a loser. Plain and simple.

Set mining is a bit different, as well as maybe connectors with tons of limpers in front, but again for the most part this is a btn only situation for me.

I respect your opinion that limping will make it harder to get all the money in by the river (this largely depends on the type of players at your table, however.) I agree to disagree, as I believe the value you LOSE from not playing hands like 9Ts or A3s or 44 etc vastly outweighs the value you lose from the occasions when you 'hit the nuts with said hands in a small pot' and 'the chips you throw away limp/folding pre or shortly after' combined. I definitely believe limp/calling these hands is absolutely terrible.


As I stressed before, the correct range is key. Imo hands such as:

Suited connectors: (78s, 89s, 9Ts, TJs; 79s, 8Ts, 9Js.)
Small pocket pairs: (22-66)
Suited Aces: (A2s-A9s)

Obv limping hands like K9o, Q4o, J5o is absolutely terrible. And I am in no way advocating limping every hand in your value range. Playing "fit-or-fold" and "limping all day" was not part of any of the above responses. We did not mention our raising range because the OP was addressing limping - just because we do not mention when we raise does not mean we do not raise.