Hey all, is limp re raising aa kk a must from ep at 1-2? Where I play, I wanna say the 3bet probability is way too low even if I’m playing super lag and showing bluffs. Should we always be trying to limp re-raise from ep with big hands like qq+?

I’ve played roughly 20’hrs this weekend and played super lag. I never was 3bet I wanna say and I open super wide... especially from button and lp compared to standard 1-2 players.

I did this play once with kk and got a guy to call a 27pf raise when he raised to 6 with 2 callers behind. I feel playing huge hands multi-way is way too risky in pots where spr is low. I would rather take a chance to have hand limped around vs seeing a flop 4-5 ways honestly. Thanks for thoughts.

I know limp reraisingn tends to look pretty capped to nutty hands but I feel 1-2 players generally don’t have enough history/ understanding to realize this normally. The games I play are super nitty where people only 3bet qq+ (not even ak or aq to say an lp raise).

Finally I tested out limping small pps from ep. I hate open limping/ limping behind however I feel it protects our hand from 3 bets where we can’t call 3 bets due to improper odds. Just wonder what thoughts are on this also?

It's controversial, and definitely table dependent. It is not the devil that some of the responses you are going to get to this thread make it out to be, nor the "only right way to play monsters" that a couple of folks will probably opine. It depends.

Meh I will never get 3 bet if I raise these hands so I feel it’s way more +ev to limp correct? I’m trying to get to a spr that makes playing kk and aa simple. I honestly feel it should be avoided playing aa/kk 4 ways against nits no? Just from what I’ve seen I would rather play the hand in a bloated pot by finding a chance to 3 bet vs opening and praying for a 3 bet. I wanna say odds a 3 bet occurs from what I’ve seen is 1-2% max. Live 1-2 players won’t 3 bet ak or aq in position against a super lag opening range so why not try to let them spazz. Just from what I’ve witnessed, live 1-2ers are sooo much more likely to raise over limpers vs 3 betting.

Sure you open up a limper pot but I’ll take that if need be. I’m trying to stack players for full buy-in and created spots where we can bet flop and plop it in on turn. Good luck getting 3 streets of value with aa/kk against a worse hand from what I’ve seen at live nlhe

Btw when I ask this question, I’m not advising to limp aa kk every time from ep. I’m just saying with nittier table dynamics it should be thought of. I’m never doing this if I’m at the borgata/ a laggy game where 3 bets will happen.

GobbledyGeek plays a limp/re-raising style and swears by it. He's primarily trying to get HU/3way with low SPRs for all his JJ+ AK and I think possibly his TT AJs KQs too but don't quote me on the exact details.

I'm intending trying out a "no open raises in EP/MP" strategy next time my game is refusing to allow HU/3Way pots and leaving me MW OOP even when I go 9X from EP.

Current plan is this:

Limp/Value-reraise: QQ+ AKo
Limp/bluff-reraise: A7s-A2s
Limp/reraise or limp/call: JJ TT AQo ATs-A8s KTs KJs
Limp/call: 99-66 AKs-AJs KQs-JTs
Limp/fold or Limp/call: T9s-54s J9s-64s 55-22

Obviously these ranges are high villain(s) and situation dependent. They're just a vague outline of what I'm going for - BUT only when I can't get HU/3way for <7X.

Also note that from HJ/CO/BTN I'm intending switching to TAG or LAG with a view to isolating limpers or stealing pots with a modest amount of overlimping with a variable range.

No idea if this will work but it can't work any less well than trying to open wider than JJ+ AKs to 9X from EP

My game turned major corner, when I stopped worrying about makeing hands go 2-3 ways. And accepted fact I am gonna play a lot of pots mutli-way.

Queue gg’s diatribe on l/rr from EP and setting up trivial stack off SPR’s in 3 .. 2 .. 1 ..

Even MP? That seems a little nutty. I can get on board with the EP strat trial.

9 handed I was thinking this limping strategy from UTG thru lowjack then normal from hijack. I'm thinking HJ you've got half live players IP and half OOP so good point to switch back to normal strategy. Not tried it yet though - all hypothetical so far.

I totally get this and it's kind of what I do at present but it just sucks so bad when I miss every flop for 12 hours and I'm down two buy-ins from opening pre and check-folding the flop.

I guess also learning the game at 6max I just don't feel like I'm playing "real" poker unless I can occasionally cbet the flop and take it down with air

I don't like the strategy for several reasons.

First, 1/2 NL are notoriously weak-passive and love to limp. When you limp in EP, there's no guarantee someone behind you will raise. Then you're still seeing a multi-way pot, but you've given your opponents a cheap way to crack your KK.

Second, when you do get raised, I feel like you've turned your hand face up by your preflop 3-bet. This is such a common play, and at 1/2 NL, typically means AA, KK, or AK at worst.

Third, as I understand the purpose of the play, it's make sure you see the flop with no more than 1 or 2 callers. To achieve that, you have to be pretty good at calibrating your 3-bet. Too much, and everyone will fold. Too little and you'll get a huge, bloated, multiway pot from OOP.

At the end of the day, I'd just play KK from EP like any other premium hand. Make your normal opening raise, and then play the flop according to board texture and the number of callers. Don't be afraid either to dump the hand or to pot control where appropriate. It's just a pair. Play the hand like one.

its ok, the obvious mistakes people make is when you do go 6 handed to the flop you have to fold it a lot more often than when it goes 2-3 handed to the flop.

when your 2-3 handed its a bit easier to tell which flops its the nuts and which ones you have to be careful. i would rather raise with it but certain tables you get where everyone is piling money in the pot it obvious could be great to limp kings or aces.

gotta sign here

This bit is key. If you can't get away from AA/KK post when you need to, don't try to l/rr.

Table tendencies are also key. Some tables, $12 UTG gets you a 6-way pot but $15 gets you the blinds. So you still have to know when to step away post. It's best at an active table (and especially with an aggressive, active player close to your left). You don't just want a raise, you want a raise and a couple callers. If you end up bombing everybody out, at least you get something for it. And if a third or half of the table has called your neighbor's $12, it's reasonable to think you can see a flop 2- or 3-way.

I rarely do it, because I seem to have a knack for only getting in the limp part. Though because it screams AA, I'll occasionally do it with less. Beats waiting for AA/KK UTG to do it with, for tables where they'll believe when you say you have AA.

No.

No. If you are afraid a pot will go too multi-way for your liking then you should just raise more preflop. Limp/raising may make sense in certain scenarios but you should be raising the vast majority of pots you enter with these strong value hands.

If SPR is low then you put in a large percentage of the chips in preflop when you have a huge equity advantage. Perhaps you mean it's too risky if SPR is high.

Correct.

I think even most 1/2 players you will encounter should know what this means but I guess it depends on the game. Maybe the avg weekend drunk won't know what it means but i think most players will learn what this means pretty early in their poker "careers".

I like open limping some of these hands but you said it yourself that players rarely 3bet so your logic does not make sense since you really have no need to protect your hand from 3bets.

Just raise bigger pre if you are worried about it going too multiway.

It all depends on the table.

If it's a more aggressive table and you are OOP against a LAG fish, I could absolutely get behind a limp. Even though the limp reraise looks ridiculously strong, many loose aggressive fish hate folding to a 3bet and you will likely go heads-up/3ways with a very low SPR. This is in contrast to an open raise to $15-20 (at 1/2) which will likely get flatted by the fish which will cause a chain reaction of flats (the normal station won't flat 56s to a $20 open but with one caller in between would be way more likely to flat). This will cause a 6 way pot which is exactly what we don't want.

If it's a passive table, I would normally just make a standard raise. It's by far the more standard and less risky play. If you limp, it will often get limped around and you would have to play a 6-way pot with aces and an spr of 20.

My advice and my general strategy is to figure out the “magic” preflop raise that will get the pot to go HU or 3way ASAP after I sit in a game. Then follow the flow of the game because that amount changes throughout the session.

If I have to open 10x15x utg or EP I will if I’m getting 1or 2 calls from ****ty players.

I’d rather take down the blinds with AA utg than try to limp raise trap
But I also open utg my entire range preflop ...I never limp so my value range is protected raising utg ...

Please call 10-15-20x with pocket 33 trying to set mine

It’s laughable

Print money

Yup, this. Just accept the fact that it’s low stakes and people are going to call you with ATC sometimes. Just check your damn over pair on the flop if it’s 5 ways, it happens. Find the pain threshold for raises and exploit the best you can. Try not to cap your range. Limp reraise is fine but I wouldn’t try and rework my entire game around balanced limping ranges lol.

The problem with just opening bigger and bigger with premium hands to get it heads-up/3way is you're forced to do one of the following:

1) fork your opening ranges (or raise and open limp)
2) open very large with hands that aren't really strong enough
3) only play 4% of hands from EP

If enough players are observant and thinking you cannot do (1) without them being able to exploit you unless you develop a complicated balancing strategy covering multiple open ranges and/or limping range.

(2) and (3) are suboptimal regardless whether anyone is paying attention or not. (2) puts too many chips at risk OOP with weak hands and (3) leaves money on the table in weak games.

In certain game conditions I suspect the simplest and most +EV approach is to limp only from EP with a range around 12% of starting hands. I haven't tried it but I've been giving it a lot of thought. I'll report back to this forum after I play enough hours with this strategy.