$1/$2 9 handed game

Hero has been at table few hours and probably seen as aggressive opening a lot of pots in LP

Villain is LAG and probably second most aggressive at table. Has about $600 in front, Hero covers.

2 limps in EP and villain raises to $16, button calls and I call with AJhh in BB

Flop 4hJs3h (pot $52)

I check and villain leads for $35, button folds, I c/r to $110. Villain calls.

Turn 8c (pot $272)

I bet $185, villain calls.

River 3s (pot $642)

Hero??

This is a very V dependent situation.

River is a c/f to any reasonable size bet as played unless you've got some kind of read on him. What do you beat that he calls the flop and turn with? KJ? A weaker flush draw? Maybe a split pot with AJ? I think he's got more overpairs and sets in his range than weaker jacks. $185 is a huge absolute bet size for the turn in a $1/2 game. Huge. You've got one pair OOP in a pot size made for a river shove. Ughh.....

Another option might be to b/f a small blocker bet on the river if you don't think V will see it as a scared bet.

Personally, I'd 3-bet or fold pf.

Is villain in MP or CO???

Do you have a good feel for just how unpleasant it is to play oop?

Fold pre. 3 betting is better than calling imo. If you had 3 bet pre he would have to fear jacks(and AA, KK) or if you had a tighter image. He is only afraid of 33 and 44. If he doubts you cr sets on the flop of a 2tone board then your hand might be a bit transparent.

It sure feels like you're vs an overpair. Check/fold because you're both laggy so he's not folding QQ.

[QUOTE=zica;44722708]Is villain in MP or CO???

Villain is in CO

3B or fold PF, mostly dependent upon the limping ranges of the two limpers, and how often they will limp/call 3-bets. Against V we're ahead of his range PF, and we'll hate playing anything short of the nuts OOP against him, as such a 3-bet is best here. Probably sizing to about $60.

As played I don't like the flop c/r, since we're probably going to get him to fold his dominated draws and over-cards (which at best have 3 outs most of the time), whilst having him continue with his over-pairs. However if we think V will both call our flop c/r with JT-AJ, and also call down with them, then it's an OK play. If V is a good lag though he's probably dumping most of his Jx hands at least on the turn, whereas he'd likely bet them himself for value on the turn and possibly river.

Turn bet is a bit too large, since it's probably going to discourage V from calling with weaker Js, and we don't need to deny odds to any draws. When V calls turn he likely has QQ-AA, or AJ and maybe JT-KJ.

On the river, if V is a good LAG (unlikely at 1/2), then his entire river calling range will be the same as his turn calling range, especially since the number of sets in your range is reduced with the board pairing. Same applies if V is stationy with TP type hands.

If V is the type to do any of the following:

a) Call down with TP type hands against a polarised range

b) Make 3 barrel bluffs

c) Open JT-AJ

d) 3B over-pairs OTF

Then we can profitably shove river.

On the other hand, if V:

a) Doesn't value-bet thinly with TP

b) Gives up after 1 or 2 barrels

c) Thinks in terms of absolute instead of relative hand strength

Then we can c/f river.

Lots of ppl struggling with AT/AJ in the blinds this week ... wonder why?

I don't mind getting into this hand, but along the way ...

1) Why c/r somone off their hand OTF? You pretty much tell them what you have here, being set or monster draw (with or without a J).

2) Why lead Turn when c/r called? Let him think you are on flush draw only and 'bluff' into you or keep the pot under control here. You are betting like 2-5 at a 1-2 table. Yes, you are looking for value against Jx hands, but I think I put the brakes on or c/c the Turn here. Are you ready to call the all-in on Turn? Did he really raise PF with Jx?

3) River is also a c/c, maybe c/f, for me, He doesn't call a bet if he 'missed' his flush draw (KhQh) and he may not put the rest of his stack in with QQ, which saves us chips if you do call him down. Very hard to lay this one down .. but what do aggressive players have when they stop playing aggressive poker (calls Flop c/r, Calls Turn)? Generally a very good hand.

Think you took it on the nose here but hopefully not ... GL

So I agree with everyone implying the 3bet pre. He had been trying to iso these limpers continually and I usually would 3bet here but because we were suited I didn't

Suited only gains you 4% max in the overall long term picture.

Good to mix your PF play up also, but let the hand come to you when OOP. This was a monster Flop and when you c/r the only other ppl who continue are ppl who have you beat or also somehow hit a monster Flop, which is hard to do with what you are holding.

I might consider c/r the Turn so I can lead the River, but the Flop is too early if you want to grow this pot for a wider range of V holdings. GL

What? Why would you 3bet AJo but not AJs? Makes no sense really.

Also your flop c/r is bad IMO. You have top pair with nut flush draw against a lag and you want to c/r? Why? Is this a bluff, value, or just button clicking?

What hand's are you trying to get value from or do you not really know?

As played I guess I c/c and hope he thinks we missed a flush. I really don't think we see overpairs and sets very often because he didn't get it in on the flop and I would expect a lag with those hands to 3 bet/gii on the flop. I like c/c'ing because it gives him a chance to spazz out with KJ, TT, or missed hearts if he has something like KQhh.

When we check/raise here do you think that he will call you down with a worse Jack?

What about a flush draw?

I think that worse Jacks fold, and I think that the number of flush draws in his range is small compared to everything else. Hence, we are blowing his bluffs out of the water, and keeping the stronger parts of his range in. (His overpairs, and unlikely sets.)

I'd prefer to just flat this on the flop, and take a turn and plan to check/call a lot of turn cards. We can get lots of value from air balls, JX hands, 76s gutter type hands (which he will almost certainly fold to pressure).

This will make the check/call line much eaiser on the river also as we have under repped our hand a lot and we can get him to keep betting with worse the whole way.

Pre: I'm kind if on the fence but I get the call as long as you don't go berserk post flop. Oops.


Flop: c/r is just ugh. Read up on commitment and the commitment threshold. I don't think you asked yourself at any point until the river if you wanted to get all in.

Turn: see above. Consider a check.

River: check/eval for me.

Not saying its right in this case but AJs has a lot more "stacking" value than AJo. In a lot of cases I would much rather 3b AJo than AJs. I would guess that my 3b frequency with AJo/ATo/AQo >> AJs/ATs/AQs

Better way of putting it is we are 3b AJo pre more given we have blockers, situational, etc. AJs has a lot more post flop value particularly against weak opponents with no fold button.

Grunch:

Villain is in MP? If he is LAG as you say and opening wide from MP, I would 3bet or fold pre. Sounds like we are likely ahead of his preflop range and deep enough to maneuver post-flop and get out if things get sticky. 3bet to $60 and then cbet about $60-70 on most flops.

I like the flop check/raise as played. I think bet sizing is the most important thing to consider this hand. We have to decide early if we want to get stacks in, or if we want to pot control. By check/raising flop I think we have already made that decision... but it is a very bold one being 300BB deep, and requires a strong read of a LAGgy/fishy villain.

A LAG taking a passive line like this is reason to be cautious, but the board is so wet and there are lots of draws in his range. Luckily they all missed. At this point I would check/call river (let him bluff the missed draws) unless you have a strong read that KJ takes this line, in which case you should bet.

All of this is dependent on your read of Villain as a loose aggressive player.

check/raise flop is terrible.

I wanted to get it in on flop against his KK/QQ and that's why a c/r is good. If I c/c turn is A or heart he slows down and we lose value imo. It's a higher variance line but sometimes wins the pot right there especially because we are deep. He could also 3 bet gii on flop and be crushed with like 65hh or worse hands that we absolutely dominate

Exactly, and idk if that's right for 9 handed games but short handed its a standard for most players.

Awesome post, are you villain in this hand and still salty?

flat flop, donk turn, x/c river