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Originally Posted by Garick
[citation needed] I mean for some of them, yes, but that's a way too eide and unsupported generalization
It's really not too eide (if you insist on using that word). There are hands, and then there are their most likely post-flop results. If the hand you're most likely to make is one-pair/good kicker, that obviously benefits from low SPR. And that's a truth universal enough to speak about in generalities.
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Bull****. If you can't see that more things matter than SPR, you are the one not thinking about the game correctly.
Oh puh-leeeeze buddy. Don't mistake my glibness for stupidity. Priority 1 is to make a plan for the hand. I don't think that's debatable. It's really not that hard to look at your hand, determine it's most likely post-flop situations, and evaluate your ability to extract value from it. SPR does that for us.
But SPR is a spectrum. It's not enough to say Hand X is good at SPR Y. We might adjust Y based on things like position, and other table dynamics.
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OK. Here is a real example from Monday night.
HOLY **** GARICK!! THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT!
This hand is a great illustration of what I'm talking about...
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That multi-way pot made me a ton
Ok, I'm not gonna break down the hand, but you didn't make a ton *because* it was multi-way. I doubt very much that a five way pot was your goal when you raised. I'll bet anything that if that situation came up 3 orbits later, you would have raised to $25 hoping to narrow the field.
you flopped the friggen joint man. Congrats. That happens...almost never. Most of the time you're going to have to *work* to make money with this hand. I'm quite sure you're not going to tell me that you're happy to raise small and play fit or fold against 4 knuckleheads. I seriously won't believe that you believe that's the optimal, most +EV line.
But just in case you do, then I think it's fair to say that this hand would have played out exactly the same way had the cards been reversed. Are you folding 97s on the button against 1 limper? So I wouldn't be pounding my chest about this hand. Variance happened to put you on the winning side of it this time. But are you sure you're making a profit long term?
Now here's why your hand illustrates my point.
If the villain in the hand had posted his hand in the forums, I would have posted "fold pre". And then I would have been absolutely excoriated for three pages with admonitions of "but 4 to 1", and "nearly closing the action", and "BTN will be raising wide and we have skillz" and the classic
"But this hand plays well multi-way"
THAT'S my point.
You just clearly stated that you made money because the villain made a bad decision with a bad hand pre-flop.
Did the villain make a bad decision?
If so, then we please tell me why there wasn't a unanimous outcry of "FOLD PRE" in these two threads:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...izing-1716967/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...9s-bb-1716480/
Last edited by RagingOwl; 07-12-2018 at 07:44 PM.