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Laying the trap preflop (KK from BB, limped pot) Laying the trap preflop (KK from BB, limped pot)

10-13-2015 , 05:49 AM
Live 5/5 Auckland

Hero ($500): young crusher, hoody, Oakleys, Beats studio by Dre
Villain 1 ($100): middle aged drunk guy
Villain 2 (covers): old nit

Folds around
Villain 1 limps button
Villain 2 flats SB
Hero looks down at KcKd from BB, checks (with the table dynamic I think this was the most +EV, trap the fish with a flop with no ace and stick it in, much better than taking the pot down preflop, also keeps my range more balanced)

Flop comes 8h9hTh, no ace as I had hoped, while flop coming out I was giving drunk guy the stare down for reads, his eyes move towards his chips instantly, I soul read him for a monster

SB checks
I check to trap drunk guy
Drunk guy jams for $100
SB sighs and makes it $200

What do?

Spoiler:
Hero jams, thoughts?
10-13-2015 , 06:02 AM
Wow, perfectly played every step of the way. Can I buy coaching from you?
10-13-2015 , 06:03 AM
..What??

Raise pre, man. No idea why you're trying to get fancy.

The flop is an ugly set of cards for two kings. You read the drunk guy to have a monster, but then you want to trap him? Then you see someone raise him, and now you jam?? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Fold the flop and kick yourself for not raising pre.
10-13-2015 , 06:07 AM
Raise pre.
AP I'm fist pump folding, having only lost $5 with my KK.
10-13-2015 , 06:57 AM
I have to admit that your play is terrible all the way around. Congrats on your win.
10-13-2015 , 07:26 AM
You probably just lit $500 on fire, if somehow you're good here, you should cash out immediately.
10-13-2015 , 07:38 AM


I feel like this will help visualize why this is a bad play. The drunk guy is already all in, and the old nit has committed himself.
10-13-2015 , 08:09 AM
level
10-13-2015 , 08:19 AM
Not sure how black kings could be a winner on this board. As played, instant fold one pair here.
Preflop: even a sweetener raise would be better than checking here. H has 500, "old nit" covers so it will be hard to play for stacks without a preflop raise.

Also, you be you. Young crusher that you are. But, you'll def make more more money with the sunglasses in your pocket, the headphones off and no hoody. Dress like a little grinder pro and folks don't like playing with you. Dress and act like a rec player just there to have fun, folks have more fun playing with you and ultimately lose more money to you. People do try to play their best game against players they perceive as grinders bc they don't like grinders and ego gets involved. They may not play good enough to beat you but why put them on notice and inspire them to play their best against you? People are willing to gamble against rec players they perceive as there for fun. Bc they want to play with players like themselves, they want "permission" to make bad calls with draws, to hero call with one pair, to bluff. They'll do that less against you if you've got the hoody up and the shades and Beats on. IMHO.
10-13-2015 , 09:00 AM
Ignore the critics. The important thing is you looked cool making this play.
10-13-2015 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkatruck
Ignore the critics. The important thing is you looked cool making this play.
TRUUUUUUFFFFFF!!!

Get all in bro.. Well played!!

Awesome trap! (and nice soul read too!)
10-13-2015 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyzz
( ... much better than taking the pot down preflop ... )
Are these players limp/folding a lot? If so, this should be mentioned in your notes.

And even if this is the case, I would probably adjust by raising a wide range that includes both the nuts and some junk, in which case I'm still raising KK for value/range protection. But don't get any big ideas because I have a sneaking suspicion that these players ARE NOT limp/folding a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyzz
(... also keeps my range more balanced)
What are you balancing exactly? How often the dealer forces you to commit a big blind in order for you to be dealt in this orbit? Or for some reason do you think you want to open your game up to doing a whole bunch of bluffing out of the blinds in family pots but don't think your range is strong enough to pull that off? Are people actually recognizing when your range is FOS and just abusing you with rebluffs? Because if that's the case, then I recommend just having a value-heavy range when you're seeing a free flop, and you're OOP with a range of ATC.

And even if it were still SOMEHOW the case that the most profitable way to build your range is to bloat it with a bunch of bluffs, how many more bluff spots are you adding to your bluff arsenal by checking KK here? You already rep a bunch of two pairs on Q72 boards, so while KK adds combos to your value range, it doesn't make you any more or less capped. So are you just positively reeling over the fact that you can't plausibly bluff AK9 boards out of the BB in unraised family pots? So much so that you're going to pass up on the insanely fat margin of value there is raising KK preflop?

In short: you are applying terms that you have no idea what they mean, and it is leading you to bad conclusions.
10-13-2015 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
Are these players limp/folding a lot? If so, this should be mentioned in your notes.

And even if this is the case, I would probably adjust by raising a wide range that includes both the nuts and some junk, in which case I'm still raising KK for value/range protection. But don't get any big ideas because I have a sneaking suspicion that these players ARE NOT limp/folding a lot.



What are you balancing exactly? How often the dealer forces you to commit a big blind in order for you to be dealt in this orbit? Or for some reason do you think you want to open your game up to doing a whole bunch of bluffing out of the blinds in family pots but don't think your range is strong enough to pull that off? Are people actually recognizing when your range is FOS and just abusing you with rebluffs? Because if that's the case, then I recommend just having a value-heavy range when you're seeing a free flop, and you're OOP with a range of ATC.

And even if it were still SOMEHOW the case that the most profitable way to build your range is to bloat it with a bunch of bluffs, how many more bluff spots are you adding to your bluff arsenal by checking KK here? You already rep a bunch of two pairs on Q72 boards, so while KK adds combos to your value range, it doesn't make you any more or less capped. So are you just positively reeling over the fact that you can't plausibly bluff AK9 boards out of the BB in unraised family pots? So much so that you're going to pass up on the insanely fat margin of value there is raising KK preflop?

In short: you are applying terms that you have no idea what they mean, and it is leading you to bad conclusions.
Wait, people are actually discussing this "spot"? ...
10-13-2015 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmrode67
Wait, people are actually discussing this "spot"? ...
Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

I thought it might be good for OP to see how absurd his logic is when actually followed through from the ground up, instead of just spouting empty poker rhetoric.
10-13-2015 , 09:57 AM
can i get some butter for this roll?
10-13-2015 , 10:08 AM
This act is old. You've been warned enough times.
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