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KQs OOP tough spot KQs OOP tough spot

11-15-2014 , 08:37 PM
$2/4 - 4pm in the afternoon, 8 handed.

Some background info:
some loose play going on at the table over the last half hour because lockout at the casino is occurring at 5pm (Brisbane G20 closures). I have just chipped up against both players about 20-30mins prior (after getting it in with top two against draws) and took a food break and just came back to the table and this was the first hand back playing.

Villain info:
V1: casino reg, sometimes spaz's out in spots and is over aggressive/loves to bully, unsure if winning player or not.
V2: fish, calls any 2 cards pre, overvalues pairs, happy to get all in with any draw.

Hero (200BB+ deep) makes standard $15 raise from UTG with KQ. Gets two callers from UTG+2 (100BB deep, V1) and cutoff (150BB deep, V2). Pot is now $51.

Flop:
347.

Hero continues for $40, V1 raises to $150, V2 jams all in for $650.
Hero? Am I getting the right price here at all? Should I be getting the majority of my stack here on a draw when I could already be up against a straight/potentially drawing dead to the A high flush when I know V2 is happy to get it all in on a draw from history? Did I make the right move c-betting here on this flop OOP and putting myself in a tough spot if I get raised?

Will post results after hearing feedback.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 08:41 PM
Pre seems ok if it's normally getting 1 - 2 callers.
Flop cBet is fine.

Fold now.
nh.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 08:45 PM
Ya fold...overcalling in these spots you need to be stronger than just calling 1 all in.

Or atleast drawing to the nuts...which we obv arent
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 08:49 PM
I don't see how this is a tough spot. Insta fold
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1238
I don't see how this is a tough spot. Insta fold
I would probably still fold, but I get why OP doesn't want to... some of the time we are in okay shape here when V1 has 99 and the fish has a weaker flush draw or some other weakish hand that fish sometime show up with. Definitely sucks getting it in here versus the NFD though.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 09:29 PM
So many better spots to gii is all I'm thinking. Not even considering probabilities or hand reading. If there's a fish i want to stack off in a better spot.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1238
I don't see how this is a tough spot. Insta fold
The reason why I said it is a tough spot is the play was getting very odd given the city lockout, v1 has a history of spazzing out and v2 is a fish. I understand this is a fold 99% of the time and there are much better spots, but if you read villain and background info it is a strange situation imo.. thoughts?
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_prado
The reason why I said it is a tough spot is the play was getting very odd given the city lockout, v1 has a history of spazzing out and v2 is a fish. I understand this is a fold 99% of the time and there are much better spots, but if you read villain and background info it is a strange situation imo.. thoughts?
Fold. You raised with a draw and two people are shoveling money in the pot. You're dreaming of a scenario where you're up against a smaller draw and TP. Sure, that is possible. But they would also play a nut flush draw and a set/straight the same way where you'd be virtually drawing dead.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:25 PM
If V2s range is as wide as you say it is then I'd be happy to get it in vs him. The problem is that we really don't have a great grasp of how V1 plays and thus it's hard to narrow down his range. Obv we are most afraid of getting it in vs Adxd. Fold.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_prado
V2: fish, calls any 2 cards pre, overvalues pairs, happy to get all in with any draw.
Does anyone who wants to fold change their mind if "any draw" includes gutshots and V2 has 55 and 76o in his range here?
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
Does anyone who wants to fold change their mind if "any draw" includes gutshots and V2 has 55 and 76o in his range here?
Any draw means any draw, I have seen him get it all in with a gutshot/open ender.

More worried about V1's range..
KQs OOP tough spot Quote
11-15-2014 , 10:49 PM
My first step in analyzing this hand would be to think about the inflection point where the ranges of V1 and V2 become so wide that a fold changes into a call even though you risk running into the nut flush draw. The analysis can be complicated because it's multi-way and you have to consider V1's over-calling range. I'm not even going to attempt to do it here. If I were, I'd start by considering the case where V1 folds out of turn while you are contemplating a call. Then I'd look at the case where V1 calls with 100% of his range.
KQs OOP tough spot Quote

      
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