1/2

Effective 100bb

V1 - I won't even lie, I have the hardest time with this guy. He is not TAG, not LAG, not all the way aggro or passive. He does a fair share of raising and limping pre. Post he is capable of bluffing a small portion of the time, semi-bluffing a decent portion of the time, and value betting always. He does pretty good value betting and is one of the players that will thin value bet the river... I don't think he knows why he is doing it though or what thin value is, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work. I think he cbets a pretty fair amount. Maybe a little too much, but not something crazy. He can spew at times, but generally one of the "tighter" players at the table. Doesn't mean he is a nit. These games play ultra cray and tighter just means he isn't playing 72 for a raise. Ya feel me?

V2 - Is on tilt because V1 just stroked him for a huge pot where V1 spewed and got there. V2 on suicide watch. He is generally one of the more crazy action players in the game, but it seems like he is being a ton tighter and I think it's because of money.

Hero - me... Nit... at least thats what everyone says. Pffft.

V1 raises UTG to $10
V2 calls in LP
Hero in SB with KQ calls

Everyone agree there?

Flop ($32)

Q 5 7

Hero checks
V1 bets $20
V2 folds
Hero calls $20

Yes or no on the c/c?

Turn ($72)

9

Hero checks
V1 checks

Basically pot controlling OOP...

River ($72)

A

Hero?

Pretty sure I effed the river up.

River is a c/f the way I see it.

Can't profitably b/f as he's not calling with a worse hand.

Don't think c/c to bluff catch is good either. He's unlikely to turn a hand like TT/JJ into a bluff. (Although as I'm writing this I realize he should!)

I fold to most utg opens with this hand. You'll be playing the pot OOP, against a range that crushes you and puts you in RIO traps when you hit.

As played, the rest of the hand seems fine, assuming you go for some thin value on the river. If you weren't calling to get another barrel or make a value bet on a later street you should c/r (folding to a reraise) the flop.

Looks fine up to river which is a check.

I don't agree with preflop. You have a guy you describe as one of the tighter players who is raising preflop UTG, and you will be out of position postflop. Now you hit one of the best flops possible for you to be hitting top pair with no redraw, and you need to pot control. This just isn't a profitable enough spot for you to be calling. In my opinion it is only close because you are suited; KQo would be an insta-muck for me against the described villain.

EDIT: If the goal is to play against V2, then maybe I'd call preflop but lead flop.

Tighter is in quotation marks for a reason and I should have been more clear... His opening range UTG isn't QQ+, AK. It is much wider. My hand should play well against his range in any position he opens.

Firstly, since V1 just won a large pot after being spewy, I'm going to assume that he is no longer on tilt. In my experience winning a large pot is insta-anti-tilting for the majority of players.

Secondly, although he does his 'fair share' of limping and raising pre, are his limping and raising ranges very different? Does he only over-limp, or open-limp as well? Needless to say, the answers to these two questions heavily shape the hand.

Considering he is considered on the 'tighter' side, and he opened UTG, I'll give him a range for now of KJs+, KQo, ATo+, AJs+, 55+.

Onto the flop:

This is a very good board for him to CBet, since most broadway hands (except Qx obviously) have to fold. Additionally, 7x and 9x can't stand multiple barrels on most runouts, which from your description he is capable of firing (albeit rarely). As such I'm checking this flop to extract a CBet (and possibly turn bet) from him almost always.

His flop bet is to be expected, and does nothing to narrow his range I think. Since the board is fairly dry, and V1 is capable of firing more than one barrel, the c/c is the optimal line since on a lot of turns he is likely to fire again.

This particular turn is one which I doubt he would double barrel on, since most 7x and 9x hands have likely picked up a straight draw, 68 becomes the nuts, and he can't really represent any hand besides a set/overpair by betting. As such, since he's unlikely to double barrel this turn, I'm probably leading a bit more than 1/2 pot here, and expecting to be called by TT, JJ, and KQ/AQ. If he raises, we can pretty comfortably fold, since he's unlikely to be spewing as I mentioned above.

As played, on the river I'm checking and folding to a bet probably. The only reason I would call a bet here is if he is capable of betting 88/TT/JJ here for REALLY thin value. If he won't value bet those hands, then there is almost no value hand he can have here that we can beat. We could also get creative and c/r the river if he is capable of folding AJ/AT type hands here. From his play on the turn, KK is discounted, as is KQ. As such the only hands which he has which can really stand a check-raise are sets, which are also somewhat discounted since he has a propensity to fast-play.

Leading is also a possibility if he thinks you're capable of turning a pair into a bluff. If he thinks you will bluff with 7x or 5x, then a lead would likely be called by 88+. However if he's going to fold 88, TT and JJ to a lead then leading is just burning money.

looks good, c/f river. and im only calling pre because of v2.

I don't mind a small value bet here on the river. Why are we so afraid of the Ace? I understand he is UTG. He checked back turn which should eliminate AQ. A5 and A7 should be very rare or discounted UTG. Is he c-betting AK or AJ A10 into 3 people? You say he cbets too much so this might be the case.

I like to b/f something real tiny, like $20-35 depending on what you think V will call. If V has bluffing tendencies this is a clear c/c.

Actually against this player I think I'm c/c every time unless his sizing is strong, like $40 or more. Against bad players/stations I'm going for thin value on this river $25-35.

This guy would fall into the c/c category unless he bombs away. It's tough though because this is such a great card to bluff. But since he is UTG I might give him credit for the A this time

Here is the thing though:

-If he has AA, we are in awful shape.
-If he has KK, we are in awful shape.
-If he has AK, we are in bad shape; we might be no good when flop top pair.
-Same for AQ.
-Same for QQ.

So against the top of Villain's range, we aren't just behind with the potential to win on a good flop; we are in bad shape because we can lose more on a "good" flop. If we knew we were not dominated, but Villain could have a pair below queens, then easy call.

But we need Villain's range not just to be wide enough that we aren't always in bad shape. We need it to be so wide that playing against the weak part of his range will overcompensate for how screwed we are against the top of it. Is that the case when Villain raises UTG? (Serious question.)

Calling pre is ok because of V2 but if V1 was the only one in the pot it's a fold.

3bet squeeze is a decent option depending on how wide he opens. We have nut blockers, we get folds from hands like 88-TT, AJ-AQ, we don't mind a call from JJ, he'll let us know if we run into AA-KK when he 4bets, and our hand has a good amount of equity when he does call. If he opens any wider than that then I like a squeeze even more.

It may seem fps but I really like the idea of c/jam river. He sounds competent enough to fold Ax to a c/jam, his range will be capped at Ax hands almost always, and we still have AQ/sets in our range. Also the stack sizes are perfect for it.

I would either 3-bet or fold pre-flop. I'd fold most of the time. Being OOP cancels out any suited value the hand might have. You're going to make decisions on the flop and turn having little idea where you are in the hand.

I wouldn't be jumping over the table to get V2's chips either. I've been playing a similar V the last 2 days. When some action/Laggish players lose a few pots and tighten up, it's difficult to get their chips. He's basically got them in lockdown until he scoops a pot or two and has more ammo and confidence.

I think call pre is fine. Our position sucks but the hand is a good drawing hand and can play well multiway.

I play the flop the same way. That is a very dry board and checking will induce c-bets from hands that we are way ahead of (AK, TT, 99, ect...)

I think the RVR is a check/fold. Given the descripition of villian if he bets the RVR you are behind 100% of his range. You are obviously behind Ak, AQ, AJ and he is not turning JJ-88 into a bluff because you are unlikely to fold Qx and he thinks that you might have 7x or a lower unimproved pocket pair.

This. If you hate variance just check fold river

I like this!! Would have to be 100% certain V is not a station. If he is decent and can somewhat hand read, this is an interesting play. Looks like we were going for the c/r on the turn but whiffed. But I'm not so sure I love it with a hand with this much value. We might be bluffing with the best hand.

I know quite a few competent Vs who will turn an under pair into a bluff here once checked to 3 times and the A peels.

If this V can bluff, especially with weird/bad lines that don't make sense I'm c/c. If bluffs from him are very rare I'm c/f

Player of above description deserves thorough study of his game.

I would recommend you to just watch him with a list of questions relating to his tendencies and record them.

He's probably not as tough as you're describing him, and by doing the exercise of recording him, you'll find soft spots to play against him. After a while, you'll realize that there isn't such thing as a tough opponent.

I guess Im in the minority but I don't like your flop or your turn.

Are we not ahead of his range on those steets. Im check raising flop for value. You said he C-bets a lot. This looks like C-bet on a perfect board for C-betting.

Turn your "pot controlling" yeah your OOP but TPGK on hella dry board how about "value betting"

River. You have under repped your hand a now a scare card hits. You made this steet tricky by playing to passive earlier IMO. Not saying check raise flop AND lead turn but doing one of those would have made river easier.

Your hand doesn't play well even if his range is all broadways, pairs down to 7, all Axs and ATo+. You should be folding. You're about even against that range. If he's much looser than that, then a call begins to make some sense. I suspect he isn't.

If you aren't going to fold, then raise. He'll fold out the bottom of his range, raise the top and you'll know pretty much where you stand on the flop with the rest. He won't. Calling is the worst option.

I'd check the river. He's not folding an ace or better and you beat everything else. The ace will prevent him from betting.

+1 for x/r.

Checking is pretty standard since you have a lot of showdown value and betting would be really thin against this guy as described.

But when he does bet, his range is basically capped at one pair unless he's opening A5ss or A9ss. Any bet is going to be a thin value bet or a bluff. OTOH you likely have 55, 77, 99, AQ all in your range still.

Read up to here.

So if your hand plays well vs his range from any position and there is tilted dead money in the pot also...why the F are you not 3b this pre!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This allows you to define villains range way easier and makes post flop a breeze compared to the way you played it (which is not horrible mind you just not optimal). It costs waaaaaaaaaaay less if you 3b and get 4b and fold than when he has KK on this flop and you check call 2 streets and are completely guessing when he fires a brick river.

Plus....if his opening range is as light as you say it is you win $22 a ton uncontested...which is HUUUUUUUuUGE for 1/2. Do that 10 times a session and you have made a buyin without even seeing a flop!! Printing money basically. Not to mention the times your 3b gets flat and you win with a cbet on the flop.

As played:

I don't mind the flop play, def pot control even tho we have the best hand here a ton...check raising is lol bad, we fold all his bluffs and keep his value range in the hand which has us crushed.

Turn...I like leading here for 35-50, I like 45-50 much more, makes him define his hand more, there's more likely hood of him bluff raising a $35 donk bet rather than a $50 one. Since you said that his utg range is wide I would assume hands like 67 78 89 JT are all in there. These are all hands that will check back the turn but would have called a bet and get to draw for free vs us. Additionally JJ TT 88 are gunna be in a wtf spot and you may get one crying call vs them (if river bricks and you lead after the turn checking thru your hand is very face up). And it costs us less first by us dictating the price of the turn, and second if we check call the turn check folding to a brick river is omg bad, so if we don't fold to a second barrel here then we have to call a third. Both choices are super exploitable, where he either barrels you off of the best hand or just value towns your face in.

Donk betting is great bc you play a hand like KQ, a set, a straight, a straight draw, a 7 or complete air like this and it's a very very tough line to exploit bc your range is not capped （fwiw I love playing sets like this on these types of boards).

River...sigh much rather see a 6 here than an A where we can snap off a bluff. We can't lead here bc we don't get called by worse very often at all, and our hand is just to string to be turned into a bluff...only hand we could thunk about bluffing would be KK and that hands isn't folding river to often.

I don't think there's anything you can do other than check folding here. Which again leads to another super exploitable line.

Hand wasn't played horrible, just a standard passive line taken. You will be put in fewer bleh spots if you just add a little bit of aggression in on the earlier streets.

Fwiw KQs does not play very well out of position vs a semi active player without the initiative (and that's why we 3b bc we have additional fold equity now)

Can I play heads up with you??

I like the "idea" of this line bc it is very sexy...but we are playing 1/2 and in my experience sexy doesn't really have a place at this level.

Won't quote bc too long but I like all of Running Uphill's input.

Check/raise >>> check/fold > bet/fold >>>>> check/call imo