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Old 05-14-2018, 12:30 PM   #1
hyperknit
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KQ top 2

Villain in this hand is a very loose player, he does not value bet thin, but he does make some light call downs. I saw him defend his straddle with K8o earlier, and call down a triple barrel on a King high board.

Hero has a tight image. Mostly just waiting for a strong hand because I know this guy will pay off light, and here it is...?

2/5 effective 500. 7 handed. BUT straddles 10. (Action starts UTG.)

MP limps 10. Hero SB KQss raises to 50. MP folds. BUT calls.
HU
(115) Flop KQ8hhx
Hero bets 75, BUT calls.
(265) Turn 4h
Hero bets 375 all in.

Kinda awkward sizing here, I think in hindsight I like a pot size on the flop and a shove on the turn. But if the turn had been more of a brick maybe itís better to go for a triple barrel? Maybe itís still better to go for the triple. Thoughts?


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Old 05-14-2018, 12:53 PM   #2
momo_uk
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KQ top 2

That turn card is horrendous and the bet seems excessive and folds out everything thatís not a flush IMO. If youíre saying he doesnít value bet thin, I would really check/evaluate or bet small like $100 and fold to a shove.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:53 PM   #3
Phil Me Up
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Re: KQ top 2

Don't think the big sizing accomplishes much generally beyond folding out worse. Versus a fishy station though (which villain might be based on reads) I think it's arguable. Like if you think he calls this jam w/ JThx/AThx/AJhx/T9hx/QTxh, etc. by all means. If he folds a significant % of that range, your plays a disaster.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:54 PM   #4
answer20
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Re: KQ top 2

Not quite sure what you are asking here ...
1) You are tight ... does this guy even know that or does it matter to him?
2) V pays off 'light' ... but to what size bets? And your example was top pair, not 'too' light IMO.
3) V doesn't value bet thin .. irrelevant to this thread. Unless you consider a c/r a value bet.
4) Flop bet is ok, I don't think you need to go bigger because ... V pays off light! So there is really not too much worry about 'not' getting stacks in by the River unless two more hearts hit.
5) You over-bet the Turn when even a CS's range is going to shrink. Would a tight player really over-bet the pot here? A tight player would know they are good (or behind) and bet accordingly/reasonably.
6) What heart (other than Ah) is V going to call this bet size with?
7) Not sure why you feel the need to turn your hand into a bluff against a CS?
8) You are only getting called by better here most of the time ... or this thread is useless because you could've jammed the Flop against this guy.

I guess the answer to your question is in #4 above .. I don't disagree that a little over/large-betting is OK against a CS, just not with these stacks sizes and Board. GL
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:38 PM   #5
shorn7
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Re: KQ top 2

So you shove the turn with top 2 on perhaps one of the worst cards for you....what do you think V is calling with given your line? Only better since there are no other logical two pair hands on the board. So only sets call and flushes.

All I can say is....yikes.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:31 AM   #6
SUYAPA
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Re: KQ top 2

The overbet shove on the turn is bad. You just get better hands to call and worse hands to fold.
AP there is no worse hand that can call you in this spot.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:36 AM   #7
SUYAPA
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Re: KQ top 2

Itīs like you didnīt know what to do, closed your eyes and hoped for the best
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:50 AM   #8
johnnyBuz
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Re: KQ top 2

I’m guessing he’s targeting hands like KxX, AQx, AJx, ATx, JTx JxT etc.

It’s really not as bad as you guys make it seem vs. described villain.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:16 AM   #9
SwolyswoND
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Re: KQ top 2

Yeah, I kind of like it actually given the read.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:11 AM   #10
Joey913
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Re: KQ top 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Iím guessing heís targeting hands like KxX, AQx, AJx, ATx, JTx JxT etc.

Itís really not as bad as you guys make it seem vs. described villain.
+1.5
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:35 PM   #11
HomelessPizza
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Re: KQ top 2

I don't mind turn overbet given stack sizes and description.

You are committing yourself (and would call a xrj for such a good price) so why not charge a STN the max to draw? eg Vil has p+nfd = let's gamble regardless of price.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:29 PM   #12
PixieRust
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Re: KQ top 2

It's not bad, but I also think your hand is robust enough to bet small call off. I'd do the same with like AhTx

The reason we would bet smaller with KQ is because our hand is strong enough that we want value. For instance if we have K or Qh I think it's mandatory we bet smaller.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:39 AM   #13
shorn7
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Re: KQ top 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Iím guessing heís targeting hands like KxX, AQx, AJx, ATx, JTx JxT etc.

Itís really not as bad as you guys make it seem vs. described villain.
Seems like a std WA/WB spot to me where we get all worse hands to fold and all better hands to call. Unless the guy is a total drooler (and he was just describes as LAG), I don't see any way he calls the turn with just 1 pair and a draw.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:29 PM   #14
robert_utk
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KQ top 2

When your flop is strong but vulnerable to a draw, then overbet the flop if you think vill will overcall. This gets you the extra value and folds out most of these draws or charges them extra to call.

When the worst turn possible happens, then slow down and reevaluate. If vill calls light but does not vbet light, then you can exploit check-fold a large bet from vill on this turn specifically.

As played even a drooler will be closer to optimal because you have made it so.
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