Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2018, 10:32 PM   #1
Richard32
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 348
KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Hi all,

Just wondering about your thoughts here.

V1 isnít that good. He has been playing virtually every hand and getting lucky. Very loose. Strongly dislikes V2. I think he respects me.

V2 very solid. Easily and by far most aggressive at the table. He has been relentlessly 3 betting V1 and trying to play pots in position on him.

H: extremely card dead I think they both respect me though and my image is solid overall. Havenít been caught bluffing yet.

Iím the effect stack with 350 to start. V1 and V2 have about 1,000 dollars each.

OTTH: V1 opens in the HJ to 12 V2 3 bets to 45 we think about it... we are on the button with KQ off and seriously contemplate 4 betting here to about 145. Thoughts? I know V1 is opening super light and V2 has been 3 betting him relentlessly so I want to exploit this.

Should we wait for a better spot and choose a hand like As4s instead?


Thoughts?
Richard32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 11:08 PM   #2
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 5,153
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Good enough to 4! bluff. There is zero chance you get 5! bluffed here.

If he somehow luck boxed his way into AA here then it’s just not your night.

It’s rare you get a chance to 4! light at 1/2 but this is certainly it. Would be nice to know what V2 was showing down when he 3! Obviously he’s not just on an insane heater but knowing how wide he can be is helpful.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #3
twitcherroo
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 660
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

I don’t hate it. Warning-don’t pull this off then start trying it every session. Time and place matter here.
twitcherroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 11:51 PM   #4
Donat3llo
Faster Than Ski Patrol
 
Donat3llo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Riding your coattails, bruh!
Posts: 17,786
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

I agree this is a situation I want to exploit but im not sure if KQo is what i want to make a lite 4! with. I feel like id want something like 56s, 78s, 86s rather than something that could be completely dominated in case we're called. Are we happy with either a K or Q otf?

These are mostly questions as im not really sure what the right thing to do is heh

Last edited by Donat3llo; 03-14-2018 at 12:20 AM.
Donat3llo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 12:06 AM   #5
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 5,153
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

V is never calling. He’s going to 5! or fold which is why having KQ blockers is better then something like 87s given how shallow stacks are.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 12:13 AM   #6
Donat3llo
Faster Than Ski Patrol
 
Donat3llo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Riding your coattails, bruh!
Posts: 17,786
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
V is never calling. Heís going to 5! or fold which is why having KQ blockers is better then something like 87s given how shallow stacks are.
Yep, totally didn't consider blockers. Good point.

But now that I do, I wonder if we need them or if the 5! range is exclusively AA. I mean, that's pretty much what we're rep'ing here right?
Donat3llo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 12:23 AM   #7
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 5,153
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

He would probably still 5! KK. He’s not going to fold it and calling leaves an SPR less than 1 so he probably rips it and hopes you call with AK/QQ.

Whatever cuts down on his value combos is good for us. KQ lessens his KK, QQ, AK and AQ which makes it all the more likely he is light here or 3! a linear range like JJ-88.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 12:40 AM   #8
Badreg2017
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,266
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Definitely like the 4! in this specific spot, probably also one of the rare times I think flatting this hand is ok. If it keeps v1 in with the bulk of his range then I don’t mind it.

Might be an even better 4 bet than a suited wheel ace since with so little behind playability matters less than removal. I think you are getting better removal with the KQ but someone feel free to correct me.

I think reacting to v2 should be simple but what do you think V1’s GII and flat range is here?
Badreg2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 04:30 AM   #9
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,058
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Rather than just discuss the hand, why not discuss the overall strategy?

What hands are we going to value raise here by default? What hands are we going to bluff raise by default?

Let's say we don't have a bifurcated strategy here and that we are pure 4 bet or fold. So our hand is ether good enough to 4 bet or not. So then we'd want to take our best hands that aren't good enough to 4 bet and find bluffs from there.

With this dynamic between these two, I think we should be 4 bet valuing a fairly high amount. Like TT+/AK at least. AJs+/AQo perhaps as well, maybe even 99.

As far as bluffs go, KQ is for sure a good option with that strategy. It fits the criteria we want: good removal, decent hand but not good enough for value. I'd obviously be careful of overdoing it, but one thing live players for sure do is ascribing too much weight to your last 5 or so hours of play. It's wicked easy to look like a monster nit in 150 hands of action, but once people think that, it opens up options to overbluff like in spots like this.

So yeah, KQo, A4s, both fine candidates to make a play with here.
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:56 AM   #10
shorn7
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,955
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317 View Post
Rather than just discuss the hand, why not discuss the overall strategy?

What hands are we going to value raise here by default? What hands are we going to bluff raise by default?

Let's say we don't have a bifurcated strategy here and that we are pure 4 bet or fold. So our hand is ether good enough to 4 bet or not. So then we'd want to take our best hands that aren't good enough to 4 bet and find bluffs from there.

With this dynamic between these two, I think we should be 4 bet valuing a fairly high amount. Like TT+/AK at least. AJs+/AQo perhaps as well, maybe even 99.

As far as bluffs go, KQ is for sure a good option with that strategy. It fits the criteria we want: good removal, decent hand but not good enough for value. I'd obviously be careful of overdoing it, but one thing live players for sure do is ascribing too much weight to your last 5 or so hours of play. It's wicked easy to look like a monster nit in 150 hands of action, but once people think that, it opens up options to overbluff like in spots like this.

So yeah, KQo, A4s, both fine candidates to make a play with here.
Good stuff and in principle I will agree. That being said, I would be very careful doing this at stakes 2/5 and below as 3! ranges for pretty much all V's are usually very strong. Again, in this specific spot it may be fine, but I would hesitate to add this to your arsenal on any kind of normal frequency.
shorn7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 03:10 AM   #11
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,058
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7 View Post
Good stuff and in principle I will agree. That being said, I would be very careful doing this at stakes 2/5 and below as 3! ranges for pretty much all V's are usually very strong. Again, in this specific spot it may be fine, but I would hesitate to add this to your arsenal on any kind of normal frequency.
Yup for sure. Though I'm fairly certain OP could tell not to overdo this play.
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 07:46 AM   #12
Richard32
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 348
Re: KQ off on the button deep stacked 1/2

Ya absolutely. Iíve been letting this happen so much and with direct position on V2 I want to punish him for this. It looked like such a good spot but I didnít do it.

v2 was 3 betting with like 2c4c and I saw him show QJ off once
Richard32 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online