Agreed. Very well put. That's exactly What I was thinking. Even tho he showed 10 high o.o haha. I think my play was fine and the board busy wasn't the best for our hand. I'm happy with how I played it and just well played by him. Tons of great feed back from you guys thanks so much. Appreciate it a lot.

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My point included the assumption that he has a flatting range/that his range has any linearity to it whatsoever/etc. Of *course* if his 6b range is [AA] and villain doesn't have a flatting range, then this entire conversation is moot. If 5b'ing gets nothing worse to continue, then there's no discussion worth having.

What I was demonstrating is that if (again, *IF*) villain has nothing in his 6b'ing range than AA, then that makes us more willing to 5b (with the intention of folding to a 6b), then if villain has a balanced shoving range (though it's never good regardless if villain isn't flatting worse hands). In other words, I wanted correct the line of thinking that, "If we 5b, then we have to fold, which obviously means that 5b'ing is bad." Because that's really not where the onus of this convo is.

But that might all seem like a quibble to you, in which case, fair enough, *shake hands* have a good day and all.

This entire conversation started with you saying that if we 5b, we have to fold because we're always beat when players GII 200bbs+ deep. I said that--while I can't speak from certainty because I've never played these games--that I'd be surprised if it's the case that no one every GII this deep with anything less than AA, but if he does, then ... yadda yadda yadda, a bunch of discussion points that become completely irrelevant if you're now going to say that this player might bluff.

just stuffing it in his face is good. 5b to 1.1k is fine to induce. in these games people will have preflop bluffing range and then call 4-5bets cause they think they have pot odds with really bad hands...i see people see a flop in these spots with A3s/98s/KTs/blabla all the time.

i usually just call the 4bet as people will be bluffing way too often.

turn is a bet. river is a call as played.

edit: you should not be playing these games if you are considering 5bet/folding.

What does betting turn accomplish? Absolutely nothing. This guy is not calling a 5 bet pre with a worst hand. I know people are bad but he wasn't one of them. I bet the turn he's folding all his bluffs and calling or raising with all his other hands that have me smashed.. unless he has maybe Kk..

lol uh the turn is an easy bet for value. he will definitely call once with Qx/JJ-TT. we don't have suits but V can have some flushdraw/combodraws as well (tho we block a bunch of his straight draws).

dunno how to ask this politely but have you played live HSNL? no good player is folding a queen to a turn bet. we also want to protect our equity and not have to make a really hard decision on the river cause we were afraid to valuebet thinly on an earlier street.

Okay, makes sense. You're right. I though he wouldnt call with worse there but you're right. Just moved up to 5/10 very recent. Just thought in this spot I would have more of a bluff catcher. Guess he wouldn't really have aa or qq here with the c he k on the turn.

lol my bad i didn't realize you were OP. congrats on moving up btw.

yea he never has a set/2pr after checking twice. he can have bad top pairs, but there are way more combos of stuff we beat. can you write the suits on board? also what i wrote earlier isn't very accurate turn bet isn't thin at all.

also what casino was this at? or region if you don't feel comfortable saying. 5/10 at bellagio will be super different from 5/10 at aria will be super different from borgata; whereas 1/2-2/5 at all those places will be pretty much the same.

It's at falls view in Niagara falls Canada. Thank you. There was the acqc and 4 heart. Was thinking he may have Kk ( unlikely) I was still worried he may have like ax suited as a 4 bet bluff with blocker and wanted to see what I did. And then thin value on river.

Let's go back to the beginning of you don't mind. Have kdkh. After viliian 4 bets what is our plan? Do we like calling better or 5 betting? Then what's our plan for the future streets?

I think I realized why we we're going in circles. I basically meant to say that I am never 5 bet folding KK. If I'm 5 betting KK it's to get it in for value. Based on the limited reads at the table I just figured Flatting the 4bet was better than 5betting and announcing or hand while possibly folding out all his bluffs.

If you want to redo the hand it's gonna be hard with the results posted already. Also you would need to add detail to your reads IMO.

Yeah true. That's how I felt. Limited reads. I've seen him open a lot of hands ip, suited connectors suited ax kx hands and defend big 3 bets ip. Floated a few flops and seemed to be a very solid reg.

I still feel he4 bets qq+ and ak maybe even aq

Ya I'm sure he does, but does he continue with those hands when you 5 bet him? This is were you need to know your opponent and what exactly he is will to get it in with and for how much. Also what does he consider you capable of? What does he view your 4 bet calling range as? What about your 5 betting range?

If there is no real dynamic between the 2 of you he is likely goin to range your 5 bet pretty tight. KK+ and maybe AK or QQ, which means he is either folding his bluffs, or only continuing with KK+. We can't tell you that info, you need to have more hand history with this guy. You now know for sure he is willing to 4 bet bluff if he thinks some one is 3 bet squeezing light.

So with that info there is a dynamic between the 2 of you. The whole he knows but I know leveling. He may of though your 3 bet sizing was bluffing which induced a light 4 bet. Id take that to mean his 4 betting range is realatively polarized at air or the near nuts.

Yes that's true. Very limited history. He seen me 3 bet it spots that look like squeeze spots. I don't think he ever thinks I'm 5 betting without AA kk or Ak. Agreed. So 5 betting only folds out worst and get better to jam. My 3 bet was very large. I did that on purpose becUse he likes to defend when he is 3 bet. So yes I think that may have led him to sense weakness. Which would cause a light 4 bet. So I like the call pre from me, but what is our plan continuing on with this hand. Are we stacking off on all non, ace board ? Like q65 we have to be calling off? Haven't posted many hands. Sorry for how sloppy and lacking lots of info.

I think he folds qq and Ak to a 5 bet.

Then there really isn't much of a discussion left to be had. If you know for sure he is 4 betting a polarized range either near nuts or air, but never hands like Ax suited or Kx suited then we don't need to force him to fold his equity with a 5 bet. The only other argument I could think to 5 betting is to force Ax type hands to fold their equity. Especially since Ax has decent equity vs or hand.

why are you giving a floaty asian guy who defends big 3bets IP with Ax/Kx/suited connectors such a strong range? he seems very active from your description and the type that hates folding. the fact u don't have Kc is pretty important as he can have FDs/combodraws.

you guys are really overthinking this...also yes autostack-off any non-ace flop.

regs at 5/10 tend to be way more spewey preflop. yea i would assume a 4b from someone i'd never heard from before is pretty nutted but from your description this guy probably rides in a barrel down the falls when the game's not running cause he's bored.

i wouldn't be suprised if he had like Q9s

edit: lol just saw results.

Yeah you're right. Good ol' 910 spades lol.. bad hand on my part.

This is the exact logic I was disagreeing with, but it's fine, it's not a big deal.

Do you think that is wrong logic?

You can 5b/f for value. I'm not sure if the entire argument is worth rehashing, though.

Okay thanks for all the help. Will post another hand soon with better details. Thanks.