1/3 Rivers Casino Pitt.

I sit down and immediately start goofing around with the table, and say don't worry guys Im just going to watch for the first 30 min... (Dealt AK twice and KK twice in that time, so I was made into a liar.)

V1 (400): Mid 60's white dude. Has funny reactions to every big hand that shows down (Whaaaoooaa). Have seen him chase plenty since sitting, and float with mid pair and call 2 streets. No opens, but too many limp/calls.

V2 (180): 60's Chinese guy. As he sat down, I heard the dealer mutter (Well this **** just got tighter). Has only limped/folded to this point (Probably about 7 hands so far)

Hero (220): V1 has seen me open 4 times (Once he saw my AK showdown, where my c-bet on a low card rainbow board was called, X/C turn to a small bet, X river and lost to K-8). All opens for 15-20.

Hero in SB w/ Black KK.

V1 (MP) Limps, V2(BU) Limps, Hero makes it 20.
V1 calls, V2 calls.

Flop (62): Q 7 2 Rainbow. (Dang, hope someone hit the Q)

Hero leads 40, V1 Calls, V2 Shoves... (Damnit!!) Hero??

If he didn't raise with AQ pre-flop on the button, he's not shoving on the flop with it.

V2 (180): 60's Chinese guy. As he sat down, I heard the dealer mutter (Well this **** just got tighter)

If you were standing on the railroad tracks & a train was coming, would you ask for advice on what to do?

I'd call and hate myself in the morning.

We're really considering folding an overpair for 60 bb total?

Possibly... But If he has a set, that's a miserably bad way to play it. No draws to call, TPTK folds, Overpairs probably fold... If I have QQ here, I punch this dude in the face for ruining my pot with his dumb dumb play.

I like the $20 open with our $220 stack, where basically we can just commit postflop on non-A boards.

SPR is 3ish on a super dry board. I'd be cool with getting in stacks over 3 street here, which means no more than 1/2 PSBs. Against bluffers, I'd be cool with even checking a street, but this crowd doesn't seem to be like that, plus it seems we have an active image. I would have bet $25.

Even though we're not in love with the fact that tight V2 shoves (although his tightness is via gossip), we're active, he could just have Qx, would a set shove such a dry flop in position, and if he put in 11% of his stack preflop to outflop us whatever. No reason to blow the other guy out of the pot, so I would just flat and hope he overcalls. I think we would need a huge personal history of seeing V2's nittyness before considering a hero fold (and I would still think a hero fold is pretty meh).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Zero chance of folding.

I don't agree with this. Lots of people are super passive preflop (KQ ain't even a pair yet!) but are then super willing to get it in postflop in bad spots when they do actually hit.

Gcan'tletAKsuckout,gottashovemyKQ,imoG

Yes, it is a bad way to play it. But that does not make it any less likely that he has a set. In fact, it may make it more likely, depending on your read of whether he is a thinking player or not.

Gcool,Ilovearguingopinions.G

I call, but I'm not thrilled with it.

this is the process:

1. consider folding
2. call
3. barf
4. swear he had enough AQ that we had to call, but really, we're not so sure
5. walk it off

Hero has less than 100BB's after getting KK twice and AK twice in his first half hour at the table. Maybe villain just thinks you're on tilt.

Just get it in here, and if you lose with yet another premium hand then you probably committed some severe sins in a past life. Try and build up some Karma equity before your next session.

Zuneit: Zero chance of calling.

Place your bets!

Honestly, this really should not be a discussion. I think everyone here knows that with 70BB's and an overpair, we go broke happily. At LLSNL, getting such a short stack in with an overpair will pay off the vast majority of the time. It's so trivially obvious that it's the first chapter in every poker book ever written. "Get money in with big pairs" Fin.

I can see the arguments for folding. One pair, dry board, raise over the PFR and a caller from an extremely tight player, these are all warning signs that a single pair might not be good. I realize it might be tempting to try and "outplay" a guy by making a hero fold. But over the long term, you're going to fold away more money in these spots by being clever than you'll end up calling off by playing right.

Was there a showdown OP? Just out of curiosity, guess u had enough feedback anyway

Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums

Yes?..... I like gathering data.

Lol, I'll try to follow the etiquette on this one and wait to post any results.

Nah I just suck.

I don't fold KK on Q high flops for 70bb ever. It's done pretty well so far.

Pretty.much.this.

easy forum fold

at the table

call

I'm with this. I would not be surprised to see an older guy like this shove Qx because they love to put hero on AK and hate getting sucked out on.

There will be some sets to probably. I am discounting sets because even many nits are raising QQ and 77 from the button over 1 limp. Realistically, these dudes love to trap with monsters too so I’m not entirely sure the sets he does have do anything other than flat you on a dry flop like this.

There are probably both combos of Q7s, both of Q2s, some amount of Q7o, 3 combos of 22, maybe 1.5 combos of 77 (because some get raised), 1 combo of QQ (same), and a ****load of scared Qx hands. I think you put the money in and take your occasional beating here.

That being said, if you have been at the table for enough hands and the guy is in the highest percentile of post flop nits, then folding seems fine.