KK with two Aces on the board!? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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KK with two Aces on the board!?

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08-22-2018 , 09:00 PM

DMV Poker

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 10

2/5 NL 8 handed

A middle aged guy makes it $25 (5x) from early position

I’m in the cutoff and make it $75 with KK

Flop: As 10c 7s We both check

Turn: Ad We both check (I contemplate betting but decide to bet bigger on a safe river)

River: Jc He pot bets to $150 (I was planning on betting about $115 myself)

Do you call this river vs. an unknown seemingly bad player?

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08-22-2018 , 09:05 PM

m0mmy

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 324

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMV Poker

Fold river. I tend to give villains at this level a lot of credit for river bets. His overbet seems like hes trying to make up for missed value with a slowplayed A/jj. If he didnt have a monster and is valuebetting/bluffing with QQ or TT i dont think he would go for that large of a sizing. Once again i play very straightforward against these guys. Big bets mean big hands.

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08-22-2018 , 09:07 PM

m0mmy

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 324

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0mmy

Nvm. I didnt notice TT had you beat. The flush even came in. Im snap folding.

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08-22-2018 , 09:45 PM

DMV Poker

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 10

No flush came in by the river btw!

The reason I post this hand is because these situations happen to me somewhat often and I am faced with a pot size bet and thinking...is he trying to get extra value on the river from a missed bet on the turn with a hand like Ax...or is he trying to get value with a hand like QQ which I have beat..or maybe even just a big bluff bet which fish seem to do.

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08-22-2018 , 09:52 PM

m0mmy

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 324

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMV Poker

Most fish will take the passive route and check a hand like QQ, in my experience thin value betting is not a part of 90% of fishes game. If hes betting a worse hand than KK its because he thinks hes bluffing. And IMO fish tend to bet big when they have it and small when they dont. Some definetely overbet bluff but i think thats the exception not the rule.

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08-22-2018 , 10:26 PM

FightingFish

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 151

We 3bet and then checked back two streets on this board. Doesn’t take a great hand reader to realise we don’t have an A, and I think bluffs make up a larger portion of range people are suggesting for this reason.
I’d be betting the turn for value against PP type hands after checked to twice.

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08-22-2018 , 11:49 PM

Matt98

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 138

I'd fold this river because he has a million aces here OOP. Any good player is checking flop with their entire range, but when you check behind, his turn check range is hands that have given up and hands that are super nutted.

That said, any decent player is going to know you have an ace basically never here, so he could be going for the steal. Still though I'd fold. You have to be good here 50% of the time and he's not value betting worse hands here, so he'd have to bluff this river over 50% of the time for a call to be profitable. Without reads I don't think you can assume that so I'd fold.

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08-23-2018 , 01:39 AM

Viral25

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,857

Bet turn. Arguably you can bet flop as well. But certainly turn.

River is a sucky spot but we've underrepped our hand so much that barring clear reads i pay off here.

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08-23-2018 , 10:29 AM

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightingFish

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08-23-2018 , 10:37 AM

#10

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

I probly fire on turn, basically the best turn card for hand. it makes it less likely your opponent has an ace and offers no equity to the drawing hands. flop can go either way you could rep a bunch of Ax hands within your 3-betting range. kinda hard to know what to do when you check back twice, I probly just pay off just to see it at that point but I thinking firing on the turn will give you some more information for dealing with river , he can call some worse hands on turn for sure because hes not thinking that you checked back an A after 3-betting.

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08-23-2018 , 11:20 AM

#11

Kayron16

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 32

Agree with the others that you should definitely be betting turn here.

But Vs an unknown if I checked turn then I'm calling river and will probably expect to see JJ some portion of the time

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08-23-2018 , 11:34 AM

#12

JoeysHammer

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt98

I think you only need to be good 33% of the time here to break-even. He bet pot, and you are getting exact 2:1 which is 33%. I'm probably still folding with no reads though.

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08-23-2018 , 03:10 PM

#13

bigdaddycope

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 167

Betting small on the flop, checking is okay as well.

AP, def betting turn and betting river against certain villains.

Gross spot for you here but unless you are sometimes trapping a weaker Ax here you have one of the best hands you ever show up with besides quads or JJ. Flip a coin?

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08-23-2018 , 03:18 PM

#14

FreshmanCasual

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 53

Turn: should have bet
River: sigh, relook at your hand, sigh again...give him a resentful look, fold

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