KK in tough spot, 1-2 at local Casino - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

KK in tough spot, 1-2 at local Casino

Post Reply Subscribe

...

02-23-2018 , 12:28 PM

SnapCall95

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 37

V(400$): Middle aged WG. Table opened an hour ago so not much info on V other than he has been playing a-lot of hands pre flop. Limp calling or opening most.

H ($250).

Straddle pot.

Hero is UTG+1 with KK and and opens to $16.

HJ, LJ, SB all call.

Flop($64): comes 66J rainbow. SB checks and Hero continuation bets for $30. HJ and LJ fold. V then c/r to $85. Hero calls.

Turn ($230): A making board 66JA rainbow. Villian bets $110.. Hero??

Will post the result of the hand after a few replies.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 12:37 PM

JoeysHammer

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 51

Seems like a fold. Normally people who are pretty weak pre don't try bluffing on these boards. Also, you now have better hands to continue with than KK like AJs. Lay it down and then laugh when he shows complete air.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 12:46 PM

cheesefist

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 376

Against an action player playing a lot of hand I'm not folding.

The C/R looks like a J, maybe 77-99 or a bluff. When he leads the turn he is usually betting the scare card and/or clicking buttons to dig himself out of this hand.

I don't love it but I'm committed. If he made a crazy move and binked an Ace, then I'm making a note of his wild CR raise and telling him nh.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 01:17 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,231

If villain has been in too many hands preflop but has not been real aggressive post flop then fold. Villain will show you a bluff sometimes but this will be 6X or JJ a lot for most villains.

If villain is bluffy enough that I would feel committed I would bet more preflop and on the flop. Charge him a lot to pay for the times he shows up with 6X or raised with AX air on the flop.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 01:39 PM

cheesefist

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 376

Inexperienced or weak players might play a 6 like this, though I will more likely see such villans check-call the flop and then donk lead or check-raise on the turn.

But I definitely see bad action players who think their J or 99 is good here and C/R the flop, or read the board and didn't think it could have hit me so turn these hands into wild bluffs.

YMMV and are reads are everything here.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 02:16 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,760

If $16 is normal, that's fine, but seems awfully small with a straddle on. I actually don't bet this flop against three players. I probably call the check/raise, but I'm not opposed to just folding now unless this guy has been check/raising a lot or is aggressive. I'm done on the turn. The one care that should hit you if you just hit, and he doesn't care.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 02:25 PM

SnapCall95

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 37

RESULT: Hero folds turn and says "nice bluff" to V... He then shows 34....

Quote

02-23-2018 , 02:36 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

I think the fold is fine. He's loose enough that lots of 6x hand are in his range and he's made 2 big bets.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 02:40 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

One of my guiding principles of LLSNL is that given the choice of calling too often or folding too often, the leak of folding too often is much less damaging. The average villain at this level does not make a lot of huge bluffs, so readless I'm always leaning on the side of folding. I'd rather fold the occasional winner than become a call station and pay off every 2p+ they hit with their garbage.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 02:47 PM

#10

sactownjoey

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 853

What would you have done if the turn was a Q?

Quote

02-23-2018 , 04:01 PM

#11

paulhamr

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 112

I don't think he's check raising with a Jack on the flop. He most likely has the 6. On the turn, the Ace makes it even worse for your hand. He definitely doesn't have a six or any pocket pair since he isn't afraid of the ace, which is a card you could have as the pre-flop raiser. Fold.

Quote

02-23-2018 , 08:05 PM

#12

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,747

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnapCall95

my math has BB and straddle makes pot pre $70
a $30 bet into 70 looks like a c-bet that missed so V makes a small raise to steal.
I hate the call here ; pot is $185 costing you $55 to call and leaving $146 behind so at this point I'd be happy to shove and take down the $185 or get called and go to the river . I would fold before calling the check raise due to your stack size vs pot

Last edited by snowman; 02-23-2018 at 08:07 PM. Reason: spell

Quote

02-24-2018 , 08:11 AM

#13

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

I'd just muck the flop. It doesn't sound like you had any read that villain did this sort of thing. If you're going to call the flop, you have to call turn as well. If you're calling flop you're saying you don't believe villain. Nothing really changes on turn - there's no reason villain should have an ace in his hand - and it's a good bluffing card for him.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 08:13 AM

#14

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koss

Yeah. It's annoying when someone throws a random checkraise in and wins a pot, but the default action when checkraised at LLSNL by a non-maniac villain is still to fold all one-pair hands unless you have good reasons to not do that.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 08:19 AM

#15

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulhamr

The ace is kind of irrelevant. When villain checkraises the flop, generally speaking he either has the 6 or air. Either is betting again when the ace hits. The ace is a good card for him because it doesn't hit anything except AA and AJ, which is 12 combos. KK and QQ are 12 combos by themselves, then there's whatever else hero might have called with (KJ, QJ, whatever). It does mean that villain is now winning if he had Ax obviously, but there's no reason to think he does.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 11:33 AM

#16

sai1b0ats

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 2,463

The ace is important. Some villains will x/r Jx because they think it is good and the A will slow them down. That makes the turn much more likely to be a fold, as we generally don't want to be folding blank turns after calling the x/r. Plus, some small % of the time Villain x/r with Ax and binked.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 11:47 AM

#17

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by sai1b0ats

The ace is important. Some villains will x/r Jx because they think it is good and the A will slow them down. That makes the turn much more likely to be a fold, as we generally don't want to be folding blank turns after calling the x/r. Plus, some small % of the time Villain x/r with Ax and binked.

Not too mention the most likely Jx hand that villain will raise the flop with is AJ

Quote

02-24-2018 , 12:06 PM

#18

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

as played i would fold turn

also we aren't deep enough here to get to river

if I'm calling the raise on flop i am just jamming

if turn is a blank I'm getting it in anyway

Quote

02-24-2018 , 10:06 PM

#19

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

This. It's a fold on the flop. But if you called, something set your spidey senses off so now need to follow through with that read.

If villain had an ace, then he had 7% chance of binking it on the turn.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 10:29 PM

#20

Nogyong

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,801

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

my math has BB and straddle makes pot pre $70
a $30 bet into 70 looks like a c-bet that missed so V makes a small raise to steal.

Yup, with these stack sizes and our initial raise size, its unlikely anyone has a 6 so unless your plan is to induce a check-raise bluff, bet larger (50 into 75) both for value and to give villains' a more expensive price on a bluff.

Quote

02-24-2018 , 10:42 PM

#21

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Fold.

I’m either x flop or betting smaller.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...