1/3 NLHE, underground game, high hand is on so people are playing everything, calling raises very light, and limping AA because they might hit the high hand (seriously – it’s unbelievable!).

Hero ($500), CO: MAWW, plays tight aggressive or tight passive, but is aggressive tonight. Fairly regular in the room, and all players at this table know me. Had a very big winning night two nights pervious playing solid aggressive poker but hitting some good hands. Usually a winner in this game.

V1 ($200), button: Average late-20s, early-30s white guy in jersey and baseball cap. Terrible player in every sense. Calls raises light, calls down light, overvalues hands, raises if he thinks he’s ahead, but his ahead and 2+2 ahead are not the same. Love this guy. I stacked him two nights ago and then was relentless against him, but he has hit a couple of hands against me tonight – one was a straight against my set: he (89o) called my (JJ) pre-flop raise, a 2/3 size c-bet on JTX rainbow flop, and hit a 7 on the turn, but only had a <PSB left. Usually a loser in this game.

V2 (covers – running like a god), SB: MABG, just got off work in blue button down, horrible player. Buys in short ($100) over and over. Plays 90% of hands, regardless of raises and very sticky post – will call with any piece to river and chases everything. Fairly passive, but will raise what he thinks is a good hand pre or post. Usually a loser in this game.

Hand:

Limps to me in cutoff (weird), I make it $15 w/ KhKs
V1 calls on button, V2 calls from SB, BB folds

Flop (~$43): 2h3h3s
V2 checks, Hero bets $30, V1 calls, V2 raises to $65

Hero? This concerns me, because a 3 is definitely in V2’s range, and he is usually passive and I have rarely seen him check/raise (can’t think of a specific time). However, he could have AhXh and maybe an over pair. V1 is bouncing all over the place next to me. I do not put him on a 3, but he could also have AhXh or an over pair. I guess it’s possible he could have A3s, but I doubt it. I think he would have raised my initial c-bet with a 3.

I don’t like raising because they are obviously never folding a 3 and will call with 99% of their holdings. A decent raise would basically commit me and a small raise is never getting a fold (nor is a bigger raise if they have any decent hand). I guess I can click it back+ and commit to V1 but fold to V2 if he re-raises?

Should I just call and re-evaluate or just fold and be done with it?

javanewt how many limpers were there? Even if there was one limper 15 is too small imo.

he min raised your cbet (even with V1 calling) on a paired board - if he had 1010, 99, JJ, etc, I think he would raise it up higher to protect against the overcards. He is also passive but it's only 35 to call. We have a heart which helps make it a little easier but it really looks like he has us beat tho. Recreational fishy players are usually afraid of paired boards.

I raise to $20 preflop. One of my targets is the loose Button, and I can negate being OOP to him by simply raising preflop to 10% of stacks and then stacking off postflop on non-Ax boards. If deeper stack SB comes along instead, then at least we'll have position on him where we'll have postflop options.

On the flop I'd consider myself committed against the smaller stack Button (whom we offered poorish 13x implied odds, although I wish we offered worse with a bigger preflop raise), but not committed against the SB (whom we offered 33x implied odds, so we simply can't stack off against him). I'd also bet about 3/4 PSB and see what happens.

Tough spot. There's a lotta hands that V2 could consider nuttish here that we're ahead of (QQ- for example). Him showing strength against us cbetting and a call is scary, especially if he's passive overall. Calling will probably create a 3way pot of $240 and we'll have $420 left. If V1 decides to now shove after our call and V2 folds, then we can call V1s shove. Otherwise, we can possibly evaluate the action on the turn, and try to make our decision there; if V2 continues large, we can think of folding, and if he leads small we can perhaps think of calling and re-evaluating the river (but even facing a "small" $100 bet will create a HU $440 pot with just $320 left, which is meh). But it's a gross spot. I wouldn't fault you for folding the flop, and I think it has to be a consideration. But on this board, there's just so many worse hands that V2 could think are good, and I'm hoping I can figure out what he thinks about his hand on the turn.

ETA: I thought it was folded to us in the CO; with limpers, $15 is just way way way too small, especially since we really want to target Button's stack.

GtoughspotG

Not folding due to villain description. Fds and smaller overpairs in his range.

I meant "folds to me in CO." No limpers. $15 was normal to a little high. (I wish I could remember how to edit OP -- if it's possible.)

^^^^

I don't know if it's just me or what, but I don't think he ever shows up with a flush draw here given his description and this flop action. But worse overpairs are a definite possibility.

GimoG

I admit that I agree with you, gobbledygeek. I had A4hh or A5hh in the OP and probably should have left it, because those are the flush draws I see him having with the min-raise. Over pair is a definite possibility, as is 22, but I highly discount it.

in spots like this i keep my opponents ranges as wide as possible and just call.

Yep, this.

Call and re-evaluate. We block some FD combos so he should have a few more value hands in this spot but I'm not folding just yet.

Think this is a pretty standard call given player description.

V sizing seems weak given the draws and multi-way action. I think he raises trips more for value. Then again he does not sound very skilled so I may be leveling myself.

Plenty of over pairs in his range, could be putting us on AX given our pre-flop open. Could be probing vs. our agg image.

Call and re-eval ip with Kh.

Tricky spot. A check-raise from a hyper loose-passive player scares me. It's almost never a draw and always for value. You do have a very strong hand with backdoor flush outs. Normally, I'd call in this spot against V2 since he could check-raise with QQ- and I have backdoor outs against 3s, but the presence of V1 concerns me. A call doesn't end the action and even 'terrible' players like V1 might shove given the size of the pot. Folding is way too nitty and raising commits you to a hand I'm not 100% ready to get it in with. You don't really have a good option here.

I think calling is the least bad choice. If V1 shoves and V2 calls, I'd strongly consider a reluctant fold. Calling controls the pot a bit. I'd hope for a call or fold from V1, then check any turn, and evaluate. If the turn is a blank, I'm hoping for a checkdown, but I might fold to more aggression from V2. If the turn is a heart, I'm ready to check-raise shove.

Good hand to analyze, albeit somewhat grueling. I hope it worked out for you. Since you posted it, I tend to think it didn't

Call seems to be the consensus here. I wonder though, how do you think villain reacts to a click back to like 100-110. Is he ever flatting trips when you do that? Is he going to re-raise you with flush draws?

Not saying it is the right play, but something to think about with certain villains.

raise for value. Calling because you're scared of trips is silly. Described villain isn't folding anything and there are plenty of scare cards on the turn.

Easy call and reevaluate. Check back the turn if possible and call down a moderate sized bet if the flush doesn't hit OTR.

Raising to commit biggish 167bb stacks when offering opponent incredibly juicy 33x implied odds preflop seems really reckless to me.

GimoG

Grunch

This is an interesting spot. With limpers, this needs to be a larger raise pre. 15 is okay, but you can obv get more value especially with BTN being a drooler.

V2's c/r as described leads me to believe his range is 22, 3x, 88+. I'll exclude 44-77 because players like V2 lump small overpairs into a different category from the larger ones (whether they should or not).

I think I'd flat here and get it in against V1, but sigh/fold if V2 puts us all in.

If we get to the turn HU, we can probably call down against small sizing on most runoffs. Folding if V2 bets over 1/2 pot on any later street.

If we go 3-way to turn, a lot more cards are bad for us and we'll likely have to make a fold if we face a lot of action.

An argument can also be made for just folding to the flop c/r from V2 as you will value own him in so many better spots.

Sorry I couldn't edit OP for those who didn't see that it was folded to me. $15 was normal to on the high side at this table.

I came to the decision that calling was best -- the strength of my hand vs. other pairs and the backdoor flush played a big part.

Unfortuntately, V1 shoved and V2 called quickly. I folded.

As suspected, V2 showed 53. V1, the idiot, had TT and thought V2 was on a flush draw (not sure what the heck he put me on!). V2 held.

This was a very tough spot against these two Vs. In the long run, it's really tough to lose money to them, though, and easy to win it!

When I'm in your spot I try to pot-control but things always end up just like what happened to you. Some idiot with an overpair shoving money in the pot, me not wanting to fold, and someone else slow-playing the nuts.

I think folding to the check-raise is probably correct -- but I'm not sure about it.

Well played, imo.

Call to re-evaluate on the turn. SB's minCR range here is 90% value: overpairs, trips, and underfulls and maybe 10% semi-bluff draws. You can beat some of his minCR value range. Based on the turn action, you can play for stacks or make a big fold.

Given that SB is running hot this session, I think that SB's bluff frequency is way down.

Just calling flop minCR is also the best way to extract value from weaker overpairs in SB's range, and it also gives us a chance to keep getting value from the super-fishy BTN. We don't want to blow away either one of these fish with a 3bet.

To be totally honest based on your profiling I would raise $20/5 maybe even $30 with any value hand pre, not because of our hand strength but because of who is behind us and in the blinds and their tendencies to with ATC to smash a flop.
Once SB raises, even tho he might be passive he could still have OP that he could over value.
I like a flat, just because we saw some "dancing" behind us and see what action takes place, if V1 ships and V2 calls I prolly find a fold as it rarely should be anything less than a 3x.