Game: Live 1/2
Hand: KK
Position: SB (7-handed)
Stack: 700$
Villain: Solid 30yo playing a good loose aggressive style (650$, BTN)
Hero: Young reg. playing good tight-aggressive, capable of 3-betting light and bluffing.

Preflop Action: HJ opens to 8$, CO calls, BTN raises to 23$, I raise to 60$, only BTN calls. (130$)

Flop: T53

Action: I bet 70$, V tank, says ‘you have aces?’ than calls. (270$)

Turn: Q

Action: I check (If I bet, I think my hand is now too obvious, the board isn’t too scary, also if my opponent had QQ, he just got there and he’s probably folding JJ to a bet) and he checks back.

River: 8

Action: I check again (Same again, he’s probably not calling much with JJ or 99, now AA, QQ, TT and 88 all beat me, I plan to call a medium bet to catch his bluffs with AK or a missed FD),

Vilain bets 250$

Would you have bet the turn?

Would you have bet the river?

Now what's my move OTR?

Raise more preflop. I think the turn check is fine, we are out of position.

As played call river.

As played, fold. You made a 4-bet that was not all-in at 1/2 no limit. That's ALWAYS aces or kings. Maybe V doesn't adhere to that rule, but he's pretty sure you're strong nonetheless. And he called pre-flop anyway.

I think you gotta give him credit for pairs and AK here. YOu can't beat many pairs, and the ones you do beat probably wouldn't bet this river.

When he asks "do you have aces?" it's almost taunting. He already KNOWS you're started with a strong hand. Now he's said the word "aces" and still flat called a bet on a two-tone flop. He has TT. I'll bet my house on it.

He wanted you to lead that river so badly. Help perpetuate his disappointment, and fold.

I diseagree that 4-bet at 1/2 is always AA or KK, we were the clear two best players at the table and we were both 325+ BB deep. I really could have done that with a weaker hand, especially since his raise is from the BTN. Still really likely I have a very strong hand thought.

For the rest of the hand my read was pretty close to yours, folding is certainly not an horrible play, but would some of you guys call? Can he ever bluff that big here? It seems to me like a pretty big value bet...

You would do well to never x/c river without a very specific read that vil will bluff all missed draws.

A 4-bet that is not all-in will almost always be AA or KK. You can confidently fold AK, and QQ to those bets, every single time, and it will not affect your win rate, bankroll, or overall ability as a poker player one bit.

I promise you that folding 100% of the time to that bet, even when you have KK, is +EV. I guarantee you that if you call those bets with worse hands, you will lose money in the long run.

As I said, it's unlikely that the villain here is as smart as I am. But he really only needs three brain cells to figure out you have a big pair. And he is clearly not worried.

If you're going to 4b this pre, your sizing has to be bigger. I'd make it 100-125 to get the SPR down closer to 2.

My issue with 4b'ing is that I'm not sure anyone at 1/2 is stacking off for $650 with less than AA. If you think this guy could possibly stack off with QQ/JJ on the right boards then 4b is good, just think about sizing like I said above.

On the other hand, Villain is described as a LAG, so I like flatting his 3b and keeping his range wider. This also controls the pot, and we can let him make betting mistakes, which is how most LAGs make their mistakes. My plan would be to x/call, and if a street checks through, I'd lead the next street for value on most boards.



As played we have to be good ~30% OTR. IMO he either flopped/turned a set, or he called flop with a FD and took a free river card. Our hand kinda looks like AK at this point which makes me feel like he could be bluffing a lot of his FDs here, but you know better than anyone in this forum whether he could be or not. There's 12 set combos so if you think he can have 6 bluff combos then calling is definitely correct. Especially because I'd take away a few set combos thinking he's not 3b 55/33 very often.

Loose or not, when a good thinking player calls my 4 bet... I've got him in JJ+, AK. Okay, maybe AQss and TT.

After the tank and the aces comment - I'd tread carefully. The tank could be evaluating if he's ahead with JJ/QQ - or it could be considering how to get it AI with TT. At this point I think we have to get rid of all AK/AQ hands except spades.

The turn Q hit's his range pretty well (and I guess it could hit our range too). Your check back basically leaves our ranges fairly similar, I think. With the exception that he could have TT or QQ and now you don't.

River is a brick. And V pots it. Sigh.

I think we can beat AKss and AQss and (maybe) JJ and lose to TT/QQ. 8 combos to 6. That's close.. And it's a big bet. I think its a call

Just saying that in some cases, when you know your opponent is 3-betting light, you can 4-bet light when your deep. I've done it at 1/2 and I've seen players do it.


I don't hate flatting the 3-bet with my kings, but in this situation I do, I knew my 4-bet might look like a light 4-bet to that guy and also I knew that if I just called OR and caller where both weak and probably calling the 3-bet. Resulting in me playing a 4-way pot OOP with KK and I hate it.

And yes that was the tough part to figure on the river, I wasn't sure how often he would have a missed FD here, and I figured only AK or AQ or AJ really makes sens here...


Hum, I put him on a similar range preflop, but OTR I just don't think he ever bets JJ like that. I also think he would bet AQss sometimes OTT or even raise it OTF. So thats gives him less combos that I beat hence less good odds on a call...

Well I don't think KK qualifies as a light 4-bet. You have the goods.

Plus V has to do more than just 3-bet light. if you're going to 4-bet KK, he needs to CALL a 4-bet light as well.

So if you're saying he calls a 4-bet light because he knows you'll 4-bet light then this whole thread was a waste of time. Whatever levelling war is going on is between you and the villain and no one here could possibly have useful advice.

If that's not the case, then V definitely knows you're strong, and seemingly doesn't care.

People at 1/2 don't play perfect poker. Just value bet 24/7 and be amazed at what they call with.

I didn't say my 4-bet was light aha, just that I might have some light 4-bets in my range, hence his 4-bet calling range might be slightly wider than normally and that is my point.

Grunch.
Pre: 3bet bigger, 80ish, we are oop and deep enough for villain to peel with a wide range. Might as well make em pay for it.

Flop: yeah, fine.
Turn: Just bet ~180. He's never folding a draw, in fact he's rather likely to have picked up more equity. And 1 pair hands are mostly checking back.

River: Any good LAG isn't checking back turn often with sets or two pair when there are lots of draws and our perceived range is pretty strong. So that leaves 88, T8s, Qs8s and Js9s, versus Qsxs, maybe JJ and a bunch of missed FD's.
Seems like a call based on game flow, pot odds and # of possible combo's.

What did he do between pre and river that made you take JJ out of his range? Do you think he thinks JJ has SDV?

This is weird. Why would he want to alert you to the fact he has AA as your most likely holding if he can beat it?

Putting my metagame wizard hat on for a moment, but it feels like V is buying a free card to hit his FD.

In his mind I might have AK and maybe AT, his JJ have SDV, if he thinks I have AA or KK it's a really strong move to try to push me off of it especially when draws missed.. So yes I think he would definitely check back JJ OTR

If I bet 180$ OTT, I feel he's only going to call with better hands (AA, QQ, TT) and maybe some FD, and fold out worse pairs JJ, TT, 99. Then if he shoves for 340$ more (with better or a FD) I'll be getting 3 to 1 on a call. That's why I feel checking was better, what do you think?

Call river. He's repping quite thin, TT (3), QQ (3), and he most likely bets/raises those OTF/OTT, esp with the FD out there. I think he most likely has missed FD, AKss/AQss/AJss/AQ/KK, maybe AA. Given he's a lag, he probably shows up with random spazz here as well sometimes.

probably making a crying call OTR

I'm betting the turn here in this spot for value... what is your read on villain?

Reads are key man, checking here is going to be a mistake less EV compared to betting. We can still have bluffs here any flush or AK i would barrel here ofc AKs are a barrel. I expect to get called by worse here.

On the Q, he almost NEVER has the range advantage we have top set, improved PE with our entire range and all the overpairs. If we get raised folding most of the time.

AP, VALUE BET THE RIVER omg lol. He might bluff the river in this spot actually so it's close use ur reads.

Call the river man... don't see how this turn + river run out improves him it never does easy call please call. Don't ever fold in this spot vs. a LAG and even vs. a str8 forward villain i prolly wouldn't fold because we beat parts of his value range... Qx (dependent).

If he had 88 for a rivered set well... bet the turn next time in this spot checking was a blunder.

This

yeah, I like the check on the turn and the river, just for pot control.

as played, call.

obviously don't think that we are good here much more than 50%, but with the two checks on the turn and river, we have underrepped our hand enough that V might be trying to blow us off of lots of missed hands.

I disagree with the turn play, whats our read on villain how agro is he?

By default betting is going to be +EV in this spot, betting > checking.

Also how's the bankroll coming along no update on ur PG&C?

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It's going to be very tough to bluff catch the turn and then the river, i'd rather bet the turn and bluff-catch river. I expect this villain to raise the nuts on this turn and since he is a LAG let him bluff rivers so having a x-call range is perfect on bricks.
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I think the big mistake here is that we are talking ourselves into calling a 125bb bet with a 1 pair hand against a described competent player. The only thing you beat is busted draws and a huge bluff with something like AQ.

I think that aside from hammering it pre and going for the gold on any non-ace flop, the time to make a move was at the turn if you wanted to go after it. A bet of 180 on the turn prices out all of his draws and makes it an easy fold to a re-raise.

The way you played it is fine, but I don't think i call more than 150 without a big read. Even good live players rarely dump it in at 1/2 without the goods.

We lose to the combos of 88 and T8, being realistic here villain gets here so infrequently with those hands.