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KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2

01-02-2019 , 03:01 PM
first orbit of session, limited info on V, later realized he was a LAG

We both have 300 in front of us;

V opens to 10 UTG; don't think he's too strong based on sizing but being UTG he could have some good hands here

I 3! to 35 OTB and he calls;

HU to Flop: QQJ(ddh) ; (73); he checks, i check back for pot control ; most likely WA/WB i think so not too concerned with denying equity here; i want to let him bluff on brick runouts or give my self a chance to bet for value on good turns or rivers with my hand slightly under - repped; maybe this is a cbet?

T: Aos; he leads for 75; i feel like the A may have saved me money here seems like an easy fold; he could have some draws but hes probably betting his FD's on the flop sometimes i think; i fold

thoughts on the hand?

thanks for feedback
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-02-2019 , 03:20 PM
I think you played it well. I'd probably just check-back my range on this flop. Villain should have more Qx+ than us. We can easily go for value or bluff the turn if he checks to us again.

On the turn I think you can easily fold. This is the nut bottom of our range unless we're really getting out of line pre-flop and villain is potting it.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-02-2019 , 04:48 PM
Wrong stakes to checkback flop, bet for value
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-02-2019 , 08:13 PM
Really only expect to get 1 street of value. Maybe 2.

Prefer bet-check-eval line with majority of my range. Not really looking to play for stacks.

Betting $30 on flop....

As played, I likely peel turn. Folding to further bet. His sizing hurts though. And you have to believe he is bluffing at high percentage. Without reads callin is probably bad vs player pool.

Folding has to be okay if you are checking back AA and all Queens also.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-02-2019 , 08:17 PM
Wp
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-02-2019 , 09:55 PM
I actually don't like the check OTF because this board, despite being paired, is actually very coordinated. QJ hits a lot of hands in UTG's range - he might have Qx, but he may have Jx or any number of straight and flush draws here too, most of which you're ahead of but not way ahead of. This situation is not WA/WB like it would be on a 8-8-4r board for example.

I would prefer cbetting the flop, and on a slightly bigger side; that way you know to proceed cautiously if called - decent chance you'll get to check back the turn for pot control - and with the bigger cbet OTF, you can fold confidently if you are check-raised or lead into on a later street. A small cbet on a wet board keeps your range wide but also your opponent's, and leaves you in a guessing game when you get called.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarDean
I actually don't like the check OTF because this board, despite being paired, is actually very coordinated. QJ hits a lot of hands in UTG's range - he might have Qx, but he may have Jx or any number of straight and flush draws here too, most of which you're ahead of but not way ahead of. This situation is not WA/WB like it would be on a 8-8-4r board for example.

I would prefer cbetting the flop, and on a slightly bigger side; that way you know to proceed cautiously if called - decent chance you'll get to check back the turn for pot control - and with the bigger cbet OTF, you can fold confidently if you are check-raised or lead into on a later street. A small cbet on a wet board keeps your range wide but also your opponent's, and leaves you in a guessing game when you get called.
I am way ahead of JX, FD's , and AX ; he'll have like 33% equity at best with those hands, I feel like he may fold his JX in a 3! pot to a bet on the flop, this was a tough bc it was so early in session, usually i have a plan how to play vs each player at the table after the first 20 mins, I took the cautious route here vs his UTG range,

what hands would call me on the flop if i bet close to pot size that i can beat?

I felt like the best way to get value here would be to under rep my hand a bit
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120
I am way ahead of JX, FD's , and AX ; he'll have like 33% equity at best with those hands, I feel like he may fold his JX in a 3! pot to a bet on the flop, this was a tough bc it was so early in session, usually i have a plan how to play vs each player at the table after the first 20 mins, I took the cautious route here vs his UTG range,



what hands would call me on the flop if i bet close to pot size that i can beat?



I felt like the best way to get value here would be to under rep my hand a bit


What would u do with AK?
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 02:36 AM
i probably cbet AK here bc i don't have as much SDV , generating folds is more important in that scenario, and of course overs + gutter
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120
i probably cbet AK here bc i don't have as much SDV , generating folds is more important in that scenario, and of course overs + gutter


Then u prob wann bet kk
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 03:01 AM
not sure what you mean by that, balancing ranges in 1/2 isn't that important at all ; I'm not checking back 100% i think it can go either way
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120
not sure what you mean by that, balancing ranges in 1/2 isn't that important at all ; I'm not checking back 100% i think it can go either way


It’s more important than u think. Especially in very common spots such as this.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 07:05 AM
Checking back this flop vs a lag doesn't really reduce variance, there are not that many blank turns (mostly non diamonds 7 and lower)

So if you dont have a complete plan for the turn anyway you should save yourself the torture and start with a cbet.

We should strongly prefer cbetting anyway due to it being a good board for our range.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 09:31 AM
You played it fine OP. Sucks but move on to the next hand and forget about it.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 12:45 PM
I'm not sure this is WA/WB.

KK is WA/WB on boards like A26r or JJ2r. I don't think you can qualify hands where the villain may have as high as 33% equity as WA/WB.

I'm c-betting this flop and checking most turns, especially in position here.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Checking back this flop vs a lag doesn't really reduce variance, there are not that many blank turns (mostly non diamonds 7 and lower)

So if you dont have a complete plan for the turn anyway you should save yourself the torture and start with a cbet.

We should strongly prefer cbetting anyway due to it being a good board for our range.
It's no JT9, but I'm not sure why you call this a good board for our range. We probably never have Qx or JJ while villain can easily have JJ, AQ, KQ, QJs, QTs etc. This is probably the worst paired board we could have gotten.

Also, OP didn't know villain was a LAG when the hand was played. Not sure why it was even mentioned.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120
I am way ahead of JX, FD's , and AX ; he'll have like 33% equity at best with those hands, I feel like he may fold his JX in a 3! pot to a bet on the flop, this was a tough bc it was so early in session, usually i have a plan how to play vs each player at the table after the first 20 mins, I took the cautious route here vs his UTG range,

what hands would call me on the flop if i bet close to pot size that i can beat?

I felt like the best way to get value here would be to under rep my hand a bit
I would definitely not consider 33% equity way ahead; and that's just a small FD. Nut flush draw has even higher equity. SD plus FD is a coin flip. I don't think giving a free card OTF is the right way to go here.

What hands call you if you bet 2/3 to 3/4 PSB on the flop? Jx most likely would call once especially if it has a backdoor draw; straight draws and flush draws both would likely call too. Yes you have KK which blocks SDs, and some completed straights make you a FH, but from the position of your opponent, why would he fold KTs or T9s or ATss or any number of possible draws to a single flop bet? You expecting that is unrealistic; you're only losing to Qx and to that you are way behind, but by checking the flop you're allowing some 30 - 40% equity hands to overtake you for free, and potentially losing value from them if the turn bricks because the draws weaken.

Paired boards miss everyone more. It's very possible someone floats with very weak hands just to try to rep a Q because 2 Qs on board make it less likely you have one.

I suspect your line is a bit of MUBS thinking "he might have a Q." Yes he might, and you might be WB, but you are much more often slightly ahead than way ahead; he is much more likely to have a hand strong enough for you to get value from immediately and strong enough to overtake you easily.

Last edited by GuitarDean; 01-03-2019 at 04:30 PM.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote
01-03-2019 , 04:28 PM
Bet the flop for value.
KK OTB, Flop decision 1/2 Quote

      
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