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Old 07-03-2014, 06:01 AM   #1
a12
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KK in MP

9 handed 1/2, hero gets dealt KK and raises one limper to 20/350. Hero is in MP playing TAG. BTN calls 20/200, SB calls 20/180, limper calls 20/155.

Flop ($80): 954

Checked to hero by SB and EP limper. Hero bets $60.
BTN folds. SB briefly pauses and calls. Limper folds.

SB has just sat down maybe 5 hands ago and bought in full. Hero has never played with him before. SB hasn't shown any hands so far.

Turn ($200): K

SB checks. Hero checks.

River ($200): Q

SB open shoves for $100. Hero?

Thanks for comments.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:02 AM   #2
wj94
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Re: KK in MP

Call. Just shove turn next time.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:13 AM   #3
matzah_ball
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Re: KK in MP

See above
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:38 AM   #4
venice10
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Re: KK in MP

Against an unknown, shove on the turn is best. We're getting 3:1 if he has a flush on the turn and only need 4:1 to redraw. He can have sets here as well.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:28 AM   #5
atsuss33
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Re: KK in MP

I agree with the call OTR. You're getting 3:1 and there are missed straight draws he could have as well. I personally don't mind the check OTT.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:41 PM   #6
TJ Eckleburg12
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Re: KK in MP

Def shove turn yourself.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:49 PM   #7
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Re: KK in MP

If you're checking the turn, you're calling all rivers, but I prefer a turn shove.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:54 PM   #8
myshadow
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Re: KK in MP

What was your purpose in checking the turn, btw? Were you scared of hearts, or inducing a bet from villain? Slowplaying?
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:20 PM   #9
iraisetoomuch
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Easy turn shove 100% of the time.

Almost the only time Im not shoving turn is against agro villains who I think can own them selves by shoving with weak hands when you check scare cards.
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:03 AM   #10
a12
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Re: KK in MP

Thanks for all comments. I was initially curious about the river, but seems that turn is more interesting. Why is a turn shove good play here? Hero has position, and can get a free card to improve a hand which is potentially behind. I don't see what hand villain is flatting with on the flop and then calling again on this turn card if hero shoves?

???
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:12 AM   #11
Flushie
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Re: KK in MP

Quote:
Originally Posted by a12 View Post
Thanks for all comments. I was initially curious about the river, but seems that turn is more interesting. Why is a turn shove good play here? Hero has position, and can get a free card to improve a hand which is potentially behind. I don't see what hand villain is flatting with on the flop and then calling again on this turn card if hero shoves?

???
Basically, it is not usually a flush, but 1/4th of the deck kills your action on the river. (All hearts go check/check and Aces and other high cards cause fold outs) In your opponents mind, the king looks a bit inconsequential and may look like a card you are trying to bluff, so he might call with pairs, other sets, two pairs, and the AhKx. The value in the hand for you is on the turn. )
Also, if villain is checking flush OTT, then he is shipping the river and you are calling anyway unless 4th heart comes.)
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