Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
KK in MP in 1-3 KK in MP in 1-3

10-26-2017 , 05:00 PM
I'm jamming all in preflop. I don't really understand flatting and letting an ace or a bad flop come out. I don't think flatting to induce another caller is a good idea either. Preflop our hand is one pair, is very hard to improve on, and is vulnerable to a lot of potential holdings. You really want to play this hand heads-up if possible.

As played, there is no way I'm folding this flop. I absolutely cannot see the logic here. Why did you under-rep your hand preflop if you're just going to fold to the action that you wanted? Isn't that the whole reason to under-rep? To disguise the strength of your hand? I get that QQ and JJ are a part of V's range, but FFS do you know how hard it is to hit a set?
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-26-2017 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dude_174
I get it. Your line is clearly more +EV. It just exposes us to (imo) unnecessary variance. (maybe you're not the biggest nit ITF....)

My goal is to win consistently. I think there is a fine line to toe between maximizing EV and controlling the amount of variance we willingly take on.

Agree either option is ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight
I think even with AA, flatting may be higher EV, but also a lot more variance, so people who aren't bankrolled properly (like myself for instance) will prefer a low variance play - jamming/taking it down pre.
I'm adequately rolled for the games I play, and am much more concerned with finding the most +ev line in these spots than with balancing ev and variance.

The idea that sometimes utg+1 or MP1 calls a preflop jam, but might not be willing to get it in on a lot of flops, is an excellent argument for jamming. That and the times that the $60 raiser is able to bluff me out with a flop jam with AK on specifically a QJx board, makes me think this might be a toss-up.

The other side being that on any board that comes T-high or lower, I think it's reasonable to assume he's also jamming a fair amount of the time, and I'm usually stacking QQ, JJ, AK hands that would have folded to a preflop jam.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-26-2017 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
I'm jamming all in preflop. I don't really understand flatting and letting an ace or a bad flop come out. I don't think flatting to induce another caller is a good idea either. Preflop our hand is one pair, is very hard to improve on, and is vulnerable to a lot of potential holdings. You really want to play this hand heads-up if possible.

As played, there is no way I'm folding this flop. I absolutely cannot see the logic here. Why did you under-rep your hand preflop if you're just going to fold to the action that you wanted? Isn't that the whole reason to under-rep? To disguise the strength of your hand? I get that QQ and JJ are a part of V's range, but FFS do you know how hard it is to hit a set?
I'm giving villain a range of JJ+, AK preflop. That might be a little tight, but I think it's pretty close if not dead on. Against that range, my KK is 33% on that flop. Villain shoves for 190 eff into a 147 pot. I'm getting 337:190 to call. I'd need 380:190 to call. Granted, if you open his range a bit, it can turn it into a close call instead of a clear fold, but those were the assumptions I was working with during the hand.

Once we see this flop, how under-repped my hand is becomes completely irrelevant.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-26-2017 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Would you have the same opinion with AA here?

I know I would flat AA almost always in this particular spot with these stacks and would be fine encouraging the two EP guys in for lol quarter of stacks.

Obviously KK flops a lot worse than AA a lot more of the time, so more argument for playing it straightforward.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Not exactly but yes. No reason to be deceptive here.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-26-2017 , 05:31 PM
With the stack sizes I'd just jam, too.

As played, I can't imagine folding here with the low SPR. He's got all kinds of TP hands/combo draws/flush draws that you're ahead of in his range.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-26-2017 , 05:40 PM
UTG+1 minraised the straddle, which is not exactly a mark of strength. Maybe villain knows this - you did say he was a TAG capable of creative plays - and his 3-bet range is wider than normal. Even without that information, a TAG's 3-bet range is wider than JJ+, AK. That 3-bet range sounds like it belongs to nitty old man in a WWII battleship baseball hat, not a competent TAG.

When you just called, that invites the TAG to try and blow you off your hand on the flop. He has no idea that you have an overpair to the board. He probably is putting you on a medium pair like nines or tens or a passively played AK.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
UTG+1 minraised the straddle, which is not exactly a mark of strength. Maybe villain knows this - you did say he was a TAG capable of creative plays - and his 3-bet range is wider than normal. Even without that information, a TAG's 3-bet range is wider than JJ+, AK. That 3-bet range sounds like it belongs to nitty old man in a WWII battleship baseball hat, not a competent TAG.

When you just called, that invites the TAG to try and blow you off your hand on the flop. He has no idea that you have an overpair to the board. He probably is putting you on a medium pair like nines or tens or a passively played AK.
Oh, did I forget to mention villain's hat?
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 08:19 AM
call.

He wouldn't shove if he has QQ or JJ, and that flop smashes your range of what you would be calling in a 3! pot pre.

Only value hand that beats you in this situations is AA, and that seems as a bit of a wonky way to play AA.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by london1o1
Oh, did I forget to mention villain's hat?
So you ask for advice and then ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you?

You'll get real far in life with your attitude.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 09:26 AM
pre is reasonable if you thought utg1 or mp1 might rip it in for you

post is a clear call. I prefer to reach for my wallet simultaneously in these spots to boost the gambol image. If you lose, muck and claim you had 22 and that you put him on AK.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 09:32 AM
I so badly wanted to just skim by and not comment. But I couldn't do it.

You have been on here since 2006. Have you learned nothing? You have under 100 big blinds and the second best starting hand in the game. For fu cks sake ship it in. It's not even close. You are trying to find the most +ev line you say. The most +ev line is to rip it in.

"Creative lines" in low limit is garbage. You don't need creative lines in low limits. The only reason for creative lines is to get people to pay you off. That's it. In low limit, you are going to get paid. 100%. So just jam it in and be done with it. smh.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote
10-27-2017 , 09:53 PM
stack size is way too small to play deceptively, imo. you also lose value vs TT, AK, and so many more hands you would never imagine calling.
KK in MP in 1-3 Quote

      
m