Hi all,

1/3 MGM National Harbor. Playing Thursday afternoon crowd. Lots of spewtards. Hero TAG playing $700 limps UTG red KK. Limps around eight ways. F*ck.

Flop: 8-9-Jr. BB leads out $15, hero raises $35, folds back to V (fishy MAWW) who 4! $80 (stack $250). I've seen this V overplay top pair (AJ) before, but this is still an auto-muck in a limped pot, right?

Thanks,
DT

What hands lead out into 7 other players? 2-pair, sets, straights (at least 7T maybe not QT), and pair+SD. What hands reraise on that board? An even better range. Yep, get out of there. BB can have all of those hands, maybe JJ discounted. At best you are fading like 13 outs or crushed already.

I personally just don't use the limp/rr in general... I probably should sometimes if there's a real live one raising it up, but yeah not a fan unless you're short and planning to limp-shove I guess. It's a strong move and most people will put you on a big pair anyway, more often than they will put you on a big pair simply for opening.

Edit: is the raiser to 80 the same as the BB who led for 15? Not totally clear but either way folding.

in a limped pot people are probably playing 89, j9, q10, 88, 99, jj(maybe they raise some but some people don't)

those are the hands that are raising and we beat none of them

Yes BB is V. Sorry.

Pretend like you misread your hand and thought it was KJ and just fold it now. This flop sucks for KK and you may have lost a lot more if you had raised preflop and gotten this flop.

"Flop: 8-9-Jr. BB leads out $15, hero raises $35, folds back to V (fishy MAWW) who 4! $80 (stack $250). I've seen this V overplay top pair (AJ) before, but this is still an auto-muck in a limped pot, right?" - DumbosTrunk

I agree. Unless he's capable of !3 otf to $80 with JTs. TP, OESD & BDFD.

I'm a big fan of the limp/reraise plan.

Raising the flop is pretty spewy in an 8way pot where someone just donked into the field and we still have the world to react behind us, imo. We could actually just make a nitty fold here and move on with life; yes, we'll be making a mistake here some of the time, but it's a really small one (as the pot is small). Otherwise, I would just flat and see what happens. As played, yes, I would automuck at this point.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fold to the flop raise... and do it face up to protect your limping range.

LRR plan is fine here. I probably do it about once a month in this type of spot.

Don’t actually fold face up. But definitely fold.

Is there any merit to raising flop small “for information”?

I think not. The main reason is because if Villain calls you, you probably won't know what that call means. This is especially true on a rainbow board where he could feel comfortable slowplaying. So the "information" isn't worth what you're paying for it.

RAISE PRE.

Otf would just flat the initial bet, now snap fold.

DONT GO BROKE IN A LIMPED POT WITHOUT THE NUTS

DONT GO BROKE IN A LIMPED POT WITHOUT THE NUTS

Results: I folded and whispered to V what I had. She said she had two pair. (Which goes to show what kind of player she was . . . two pair on that connected of a flop is like the 1,000,000th nuts and she was ready to GII.)

+1 to what Vernon said, plus you can often get all the information you need by simply flatting (and also checking had it been checked to us, which is likely what I would have done this multiway).

Gcluelesslimp/raisingnoobG

I would have flatted flop, but yes fold now. Just because he has overplayed TP/TK, doesn't mean he is going to cold 3! it in a limped pot.

Run away screaming. Metaphorically, of course. Fold.

Raising flop is spew. The flop is barely even a call to the first bet.

Is the table raising a lot? Where is the spew happening pre or post? If it's post then don't limp. But after you did, flop is almost a fold but flatting is fine. Raising is just way overplaying your hand.

Reminds me of a hand a year ago when I o/r with QQ, V !3 & I !4 3x his raise & he folded QQ face-up. I had QQ, didn't show, & owed him from that point on. To this day, I still think he believes I'm nitty.

A good player I know, is UTG last night & her 1st card is an ace, so she doesn't look at the 2nd & limps in & gets several people who flat. Her 2nd card was also an ace. She got lucky & won an o.k. size pot.

IMHO, limping 1st in is just bad.

About a month ago, I am running cold & can't remember having such as low VPIP, so when I get KK UTG I open for $7 & get 5/6 callers. Fortunately for me, the SB with ~$175 !3 & I get to squeeze out the callers.

Had it not been for the SB !3, I would have lost an unknown amount of money, as the flop came with two 7s & one guy folded 75s pre. It wouldn't have been a lot, however, SB GII vs me with AJs, I win & no king ever showed up on the board. I would have had to call the V's flop bet who had the 7, had it not been ridiculous, as he is a lag-tard.

I subscribe to the practice of open/raising in EP for the same amount, no matter what I am holding. The size is dependent upon the table dynamic.

just call flop. if you folded to the first bet i wouldnt blame you either


limp rr depends on if youre first in-raises are getting callled a lot. you dont want to open to $12 and get 5 callers either.

I'm not in the 'l/rr is always cancer' team but you want two things to make it a good play IMO, an aggressive table that will attack your 'weak' limp and reasonably shallow stacks so you can get pot committed preflop. You didn't mention an aggro table or your reasons to l/rr so I'm guessing you don't have good reasons to make this play. Generally just come in for a raise.

Pot is a x/c, donk is not necessary. This is the kind of flop I would x and then fold if we get a call and a raise.

As played obvious fold is obvious, 3 betting would be ridiculous. Don't bet for information. Use the information you obtain as a result of taking an action.